Like every other system it seems they didn’t really consider multi-specs.
A second spec (say tank instead of dps) has vastly different needs. Most systems (neck, talents) clean slate per spec so you can optimize.
But ones that don’t (azerite gear, covenants) are VERY VERY BAD. Basically it puts an arbitrary penalty to doing a second spec that is not only unnecessary, it discourages people from floating different roles.
On my Paladin I can tank, dps, and heal - but to get the gear for it (residum was 3x as long to acquire) took longer calendar time than if I ran 3 different toons… that makes no sense. And if I run 3 diff toons, then I am FAR less likely to switch roles on the fly to optimize M+ PuG queues.
Covenants are even worse - they may ruin an off spec with no possibility of it working out.
I managed to make a pug on an alt with no io tied to my main that full cleared heroic at 450 with me tanking it. It really isn’t that hard if you are willing to put the effort took I think 4 hours including forming the group.
Having to choose between aesthetics and power is a concern. I don’t want my DK to go with the Night Fae but their DK ability is the best. If I go with Necrolords as I wanted since it seemed to fit a DK, especially an Undead one, I’ll be gimping him on power which could cause issues with group content. I mean if we don’t take the optimal covenant for the best power for the class we will be excluded from many groups.
This is probably the worst scenario of the system. Someone who is willing to tank for the guilds raid team would want to pick an ideal tank ability to be a team player - but if they want to PvP outside of raid, well now they’re penalized pretty drastically for being a team player in raids while also just wanting to play more content the game has to offer.
Exactly this - the more you want to play the game, the more you get penalized. Seems completely backwards.
Can you blame any of them? How many years have off meta players gotten walked over cause they picked options they enjoy over the mathematically better choice? Being able to swap any time still removes choices for these players as their build is still determined by a simulation.
I think one of the biggest problems with the system as it stands is that you’re being asked to make a meaningful choice (which is great!), but you don’t have enough information and foresight to make an informed choice. Even if you look at the balance of the abilities at the start of the expansion, doing your research from the beta, and you decide that the Necrolords fit your playstyle the best based on the utility and power of the ability at that moment, there’s no telling how that balance changes over the course of the expansion. The informed and meaningful choice made in the present is typically invalidated within a few months (of a 2+ year expansion cycle) by balance changes, new gear, and new power systems. Previous systems were much more malleable, so changes in the balance of azerite traits, essences, legion legendaries, and netherlight crucible (remember that?) could be responded to by altering your character fairly easily (compared to the supposed mountain of changing covenants).
Ultimately, people will either pick their covenant for aesthetics or for power, and the people that pick it for power will eventually end up mad when the balance inevitably changes over the course of the expansion.
Some comments from Ion made it seem like this “meaningful choice” is essential to bringing back that RPG feel to WoW and giving players more agency over their characters. I would disagree with this. By coupling your power and aesthetics/roleplay choices, whichever one of these is more important to you as a player will take precedence, and the other will come along for the ride. This is a win-win only if it happens to be that the covenant power you want is aligned with the covenant you feel your character is most aligned with (aesthetically/roleplay). For everyone else you’re either picking the power you want and getting a 2nd/3rd/4th choice roleplay experience, or vice versa. If the covenant choice was more of a choice of “which storylines and characters do you want to follow and engage with”, then you get to make a relatively informed and clear decision on the direction of your character. That is still great player agency and doesn’t involve settling for a lesser experience because you want to hang out with the vampires or because you think casting 20 druid spells at once is going to be really powerful.
Some players already do, but right now there isn’t a lot of reason to have more than one paladin, for example. With Covenants, there might be a reason, so maybe more players will do it.
But that just means a change in priorities. I think that I will personally stick to playing multiple classes, and simply spread them across Covenants, but the possibility that another player might decide to double up on their favorite classes isn’t something to be concerned about.
I could even see myself leveling a second paladin, warlock and warrior in Shadowlands, when I normally might not, precisely because of the variety provided by Covenants.
The point being: there’s no reason to believe that this will be some type of game-breaking problem. I’ve already seen players talking about leveling 4 plate, 4 cloth, 4 mail and 4 leather classes to collect all the appearances. Not because they have to, but because they actively want to.
This is similar to how some players focused on playing all the classes in Legion. Of course they weren’t and won’t be “optimizing” all those characters, but “optimizing” is something that happens with a main and maybe a few alts that are played a lot.
The main concern that I can see is the possibility of one Covenant being great for raids and another for mythic+ on the same spec, because there is so much overlap there. That’s the most obvious one, but there might be a few similar cases.
I wouldn’t say it’s game breaking - but it definitely seems to be a step backwards and not something good.
Allowing players to be efficient is what I personally value.
I can see how people with more time and people that don’t push challenging content very hard would be ok with the approach though.
Having players able to switch their covenant abilities still wouldn’t prevent those players from doing so. The current system only imposes restricitons on those people who value efficiency and that push multiple forms on content in a “try-hard” fashion.
That’s been my whole issue with the system - everything you state as a potential “positive” would still be possible in a flexible system. But in the current system - the players who are just trying to play the best they can for their teams are the one’s being negatively effected.
As a casual/RP - I’d rather have some actual benefit that I receive from the system rather than having players feel forced to level 4 of the same class or feel like they’re forced to play subpar in all but likely one form of content. And to be honest - even if I did receive a benefit, but the try-hards still had the restriciton, it wouldn’t feel good. I think the happy medium is them not getting the benefits as their consequence as opposed to feeling like they’re wasting time being inefficient with 4 of the same class or feeling like they’re performing worse than they otherwise could.
you had me until here. This is the important part, I think if they had this, the RP value is still sanctified because the covenants aren’t always exclusively opposed to each other. There is a common enemy - the jailer, etc. - thus it makes sense if you want to get essentially a reputation with each even while sticking to your main one the whole time as a primary thing
From what I’ve seen - the players asking for a changeable ability system aren’t asking for all appearances to be unlocked. What they’re asking for could still require 4 of the same class to unlock all appearances…which seems silly, even as a laid back player, but that’s not what I’ve seen requested in terms of the system.
This is what the requests I’ve seen are specifically trying to address.
I don’t think it’s reasonable for Blizzard to legitimately balance all of the abilities across 12 classes and 30+ specs. So to try to implement penalties in a system that relies on balance to offset the issue you highlight seems outlandish.
I would rather they embrace and stick with the diverse nature of the abilities without worrying so much about balance. As others have noted - personally I’d value rewards, other than aesthetics, to be a key feature and incentive that promotes loyalty and that becomes the source of consequence for the min/maxxers that would prefer to have the choices, player agency, and options for their character.
The Dev’s obviously are trying something different - but I just don’t get the positive; outside of the sadistic folks rejoicing that other people in the game are getting penalized.
I’d rather have a fun game that people enjoy playing, than a game made because players like you want others to suffer, which will inevitably lead to lower and lower populations/subs. After azerite gear and corruption blizzard is losing much of their community’s good faith. It won’t last forever.
And we’ve seen a lot of subs drop, so you want the game to continue a downward decline for another 2 years? That sounds horribly childish and spiteful.
To answer your question though. Yes, I would. The only reason I’ve stayed subbed though bfa is because:
My class/spec of choice doesn’t particularly need certain traits. And
I set goals that I enjoy completing at the beginning of the expac, and I’ve almost completed them.
If i have no content goals in SL, and the gameplay feels bad, i have no reason to stay subbed.