“An aspect of RPGs are meaningful choices, and if a choice can be changed on the fly to fit your situation it isnt a choice”
But you also have to remember that each class has 2-4 specs. A choice I make for one spec could be good for that spec but the least optimal choice for another. Then there’s the fact that I also have to take into account mounts, armor, faction theme, and several other things. Having cosmetics locked behind a covenant is one thing, but having the abilities and such is going too far IMO.
The only definition of a bad player is an actual bad player, someone who stands in fire can’t actually carry out a rotation has to pay for carries because they can’t do content themselves etc.
There’s at least plenty of time between now and its release.
I’m really curious to see if the pro’s end up leveling 4 of each of their classes and how that will impact the system going forward.
It seems inevitable that a lot of players will see them doing that - and then feel that they have to as well; which I hope isn’t the intended goal of the devs.
This whole thing is just casuals attacking min-maxer lol, but they’re too afraid to admit that.
Hah you couldn’t be optimal and you’re gonna be weaker getting restricted by this system, me like, this way you’ll be pulled down closer to my level teehee.
Well, the min-maxers might deserve it, after all, quite a few of them seem to like to serve as gate keepers for those that don’t meet their standards.
As opposed to: get good noob, your set up does .2% less DPS. You are a bad player who should just quite the game and leave it to us, the ones that want to be the best.
Most content does not need to be min-maxed to complete, now high M+, High PvP and Mythic raiding? sure, but anything lower then that should be able to be done as long as everything is within say 5-10% of each other.
Unfortunetly, there are those that might be able to do content themselves, but have to pay because to the requirements some people are setting.
They are rare, and the extreme end, but they are also the ones that, if they open their big mouths, everyone who hears them remembers.
Point was there are those that if you don’t play “their” way they will think you are a bad player or try and keep you from doing content or your preferred role, etc. If they were not around, discussions like this, barring asking blizzard makes sure the covenants are close to one another in all aspects, would likely not have to take place.
Yet I’m pretty sure you ve seen ‘no locks, no shadow priests’ in description of groups at times during legion and bfa due to community perceptions that exist because some bad players worship min maxers
As such, the chance to put those min-maxers down or “in their place” is too good to pass up for some. Min-maxers help shape community perception and if they say x is the way to go, there will be those that say anyone that does not do x is trash.
I don’t blame the min-maxers, they are playing the way they want to, and want to continue doing such, but the rest of us want to be able to do the same yet if we want to do even say heroic or the weekly M+ we face issues due to the ones that worship the min-maxers.
I can understand having different opinions on this, it’s not a case of there being a single right answer, necessarily.
WoW has been a fun game in many iterations. I could see many versions of the Covenants being enjoyable. Having said that, allowing for several different max level progression paths is an idea that the devs have toyed around with before (notably with Path of the Titans), and it has never made it into the finished product, so I’m rooting for it to work this time around.
It would be a good thing if an RPG feature can find a place in WoW for a change, because WoW tends to be driven by balance and tuning to the point of becoming incredibly boring at times because of it, especially in the area of class design.
Exactly, nobody actually has an issue with actual min maxers, people are free to do that if they study and know their class and tinker with builds.
The issue are the bad players who dont understand their class, dont understand their build and just follow whatever a guide tells them and then start telling others how to play and what to do even though they clearly have no idea how to play but they think they are good because they follow a guide.
I still remember watching scripe playing Torghast and some similar people telling him to use immolate repeatedly because a guide told them so while Scripe knew that immolate was useless at high torghast levels, both damage wise and shard wise since the anima power of multiple infernals makes using immolate a waste of gcd.
He knew how to play his class, they didnt because they dont know how to play their class and instead worship guides, and they DELUDED themsleves into thinking they can tell a better player how to play.
That delusion coming from bad players who worship min maxers are the issue, and thankfully the current covenant is gonna hurt many of them who wont be able to level 4 of each. And if they do they are gonna suffer for it since they ll have to gear 4 different alts.
You make it sound like this is a disaster in the making, but many WoW players actively want to play multiple characters. They would be leveling multiple characters no matter what.
In Legion, a lot players made it a goal to play every class to experience the order hall campaigns, obtain the class mounts and artifact appearances. That meant 12 different characters.
Whatever happens with Covenants, exactly, experiencing the stories and collecting the appearances is going to be a fun goal for a lot of players.
So let’s say that I love paladins and want to have paladins in multiple Covenants. That would mean that I have a few characters with different mogs and abilities, which is… fine? I would have that anyway.
It won’t be boring. Each of the 4 characters will have experienced a different story and have different abilities, along with unique mounts and appearances.
Sounds like fun.
Even if we raise the specter of one Covenant being great for a particular spec in mythic+ and another being great in raids, and both are seen as “mandatory” by dedicated players who want to be optimal… what is the actual problem?
It just means that I might be collecting mogs and mounts on 2 paladins, for example, when I would normally have no reason to play a 2nd paladin.
Because it’s redundant from an RNG/Grinding perspective when it comes to gear and crafting an artifact weapon.
You could still require players to have to go through the covenant process for each ability so that they could experience each of the different stories - on a single character; which I agree, would be fun. But having to grind out 4 sets of gear for the same class on 4 toons is such an unnecessary waste of time when a much more simple approach is possible to address both sides of this issue - and when that would actually provide something tangible to players who stick with a covenant.
Ok, but as already noted, players actively want to have multiple characters.
Having different story, cosmetic rewards and abilities are part of why it is fun to play multiple characters. In Legion, a lot of people got around to leveling and playing classes that they might have neglected previously because they had no motivation to play them, given that there had not previously been any class-specific content, or very rarely.
The only real difference here is that, instead of leveling a paladin, a druid, a warlock and a warrior, a particular player might want to level more than one paladin as a priority, I guess.
But those experiences won’t be redundant. It’s the opposite. The story, the abilities, the appearances… all of it will be unique.
So pro players doing this, or not doing it, is a non-issue, really. Basically they might have a different mix of alts than usual. That’s it.
I liked how and what they did with the n’zoth helm/whispers and being able to choose to be a Sylvanas loyalist.
That was nice from an RPG perspective and kept gameplay impacts out of the picture.
Many players have alts - but a lot of those players play alts to play from a different role or class perspective. I’m definitely in that group, and the guilds/communities I’m a part of actively play across those characters in raids and M+ throughout the week - but I can’t name a single person that actually has multiple characters of the same class.
