Which is why I included raw numbers in combination to %ile.
I am not comparing them apples to apples. In my interpretation, I am clearly stating that time is a big factor; however, it is important to note that we are over 28% KSM after 1 month. Which means, with reasonable assumptions, that over the next 5 months or so that number will continue to increase as they have historically done ever other season.
This is where the raw numbers come in to play. The numbers suggest that we are over half way in terms of raw characters reaching KSM than DF’s best attrition season with over 36 million runs over 6 months.
It’s not meaningless just because it doesn’t fit your narrative. You have to be able to look at data and interpret them within certain contexts. There’s always going to be variables that prevents them from being 1:1 comparisons.
You do not understand statistics. Standardizing is INCREDIBLY important. Your raw numbers are meaningless because they change day to day, month to month. They need to be in the same time frame to be comparable. Say you compared the 3 month data from DF 4 to the 1 month data from Season 1 of TWW ( I am granting you a lot charity even doing this because you already have the confound of them being at different points in an expansion) - how would you do this? The assumption you are making is “Season 1 will continue to have more runs” BUT at what rate? You can’t know. You can know season 3’s rate because it already happened but you are guessing at this one. This is very shaky ground to base a claim on.
1 Like
I do understand statistics and I understand standardizing is important, but as I stated that’s impossible to do with so many variables many of which we don’t get to see as consumers.
You can claim it’s meaningless, but the way the numbers are used is what’s important.
Time is a major contributing factor. The fact that both raw numbers and percentile are quickly approaching historical end-of-season numbers means that tuning within the rewards bracket is not an issue. People were crying because they weren’t able to get max rewards on week 1 when they never got max rewards on S1 week 1 in the past.
This is a relativity issue.
I didn’t claim to know the “rate”. I used historical analog to show that the percentile and raw numbers always goes up with time. They never decrease. Meaning if we are at 28% now, it is a safe assumption that the number will continue to increase with time.
This is the whole point. You said it. You are posting data that is meaningless because some of the critical information we need to make our analysis is missing. This is what I am pointing out to you.
If you used the historical data from the first month of Season 1 of DF, that would be the closest you could get to making a comparison. Its still not perfect - DF was the expansion following SL and a lot of players moved on from Wow (to come back now) but its better than what you have posted.
Another piece of data that would be valuable is to compare key level participation. 10’s have 5% of the player base of M+ playing them - is this comparable to +20s in D3 or D2 or D1?
The thing is is that they are impacted though, even if they don’t realize it. If people lose interest in M+ they lose veiwers, they lose income, they slow growth. Steamers have an incentive to represent the interests of the community whether they realize it or not. The health of Wow is the most important for those building businesses and livelihoods on top of it.
1 Like
So by that logic the change is also a negative for the people the person I was responding to was claiming was the target for the change. I won’t argue your logic here, it makes sense; but it still demonstrates my point that it’s asinine to try to claim Blizzard removing the bottom 10 levels of keys was done so for the favor of the streamers and MDI players.
1 Like
Game has been out for 20 years and they keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. This is what happens when you don’t even play your own game.
Finding even two or three people with your mindset in most any pug is a pipe dream. And with how everything has been tuned this season, one to two people not operating 100% on that level similar to yours its an immediate failure and it feels soul-crushing at times. It’s elitist because it’s tuned to require mid to top tier coordination and awareness from the full group even for levels that aren’t very conpetitive in the grand scheme of things such as +10s/+11s. Mythic+ does not give the best loot in the game, Mythic raiding does for over 60% of each spec’s true overall bis list. There’s no reason to lock non-ideal loot behind these arbitrary challenge levels that only suit the top 10%. I broke through the learning curves once on the main now I have to do it two more times on the alts while simultaneously grinding another 1260 gilded crests after I just finished grinding over 900 runed crests just to get the ilvl and rating needed to still be declined unless I get lucky on someone letting me into say a +10 when I only havd a +8 timed for that dungeon and now I can get into most any +9 because of that.
A end game mode that drops the best gear in the game should be hard. If they make it easier they should nerf the gear too.
I think its more an issue of a rotating dev team. I think with unionization things may settle a bit more. I also think (I don’t know this) that Ion seems to be extremely tied to the idea that players must only earn good rewards for extraordinary effort (if they suffer) and is reluctant to ever make things easier - even to the detriment of the games success (see SL and covenants)
1 Like
But I can’t believe that this company cares more about keeping elitist dungeon structure in place over the bottom line.
I guarantee you that they don’t. They will walk back the tuning if player number drops are causing them to lose money. This season reminds me so much of the Cata HC dungeon fiasco.
2 Likes
I’m sure this is what got you the ‘internet likes’, but not indicative of what’s going on, so you’re not solving anything.
I agree with you, the one caveat I have is that some of the popular M+ streamers don’t seem to understand that. I heard a lot of the “get good” arguments from them when everyone was complaining about progression and it was confusing. You are hearing a ton of negative feedback from your viewership and player base and you choose to invalidate their arguments? Not a great move from a business perspective. I get that they don’t want many of the changes that people are asking for because it removes some of the prestige they enjoy but the health of the game is more important to their careers.
You are completely off on this. There would be no community or even a game if there wasnt and “elitist” structure…
even if you never step foot in mythic raid for high keys, it is still critical to this game functioning because it represents what people can “reach” for … or work towards… without that there would literally be no reason to play the game.
The game needs to be balanced around the “elitists” because literally thats all that matters.
I know this as a starcraft player… the game NEEDS to be balanced around the top 1% or there wouldnt be a game. Whether the casuals can perceive that or not.
this is just some extra literate drivel and crying about difficulty, nothing more. I suggest trying classic and stop asking a game to be dumbed down to your level. millions play, not just you.
You are talking about this season as though it’s over. It has barely begun lol
I want PVP back in the vault rewards and M+ gone.
I got KSM each season I played in DF. I doubt I will play M+ this season, or perhaps even this expansion. The new dungeons are just awful and I find myself avoiding them even for the weekly reputation quests. Always hated Grim Batol too. Clearly whoever was put in charge of TWW dungeons and M+ was big on RP and not so big on how good a dungeon feels to play.
I can solo Tier 8 Delves just fine, but they are chore. Torghast was better than this. Between all this, nerfs to my main class and the washed out, depressing color palette in every zone, I am losing all motivation to play this game.
I usually just quickly do a follower version of the dungeon for the weekly rep reward quest. Quick and easy and chill.
I know, I just can’t stomach them anymore. Especially Dawnbreaker.