True you can have a lot of mechanics and affixes that are easy to deal with but add complexity in overlap. But at the tuning that most average gamers can quickly grasp and handle at a reasonable stress level. All of that complexity basically but still enjoyable and fun for the group running it.
yeppers 100% this, but as always, bliz buries their head in the sand and sticks to their guns… reminds me of covenants
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M+ players have been freaking out about affixes since M+ was implemented. There’s nothing new here.
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I mean even I was. I hated having to stop to target the exploding lava balls and st them only, or dispel that corporeal I think that nerfed my haste? Those things sucked on top of paying attention to other stuff. A lot of the affixes imo appear waaaaay too often during a run for me anyway.
As has been mentioned multiple times by multiple folks:
- Undertuned rewards
- Too many things happening at once
- Tank/Healer responsibility increased
- less smooth curve for progression
- fewer of what I’ll call cul-de-sacs. Places where soft limits are hit and folks feel comfortable running the same key number
- Too much intermingling between what’s commonly referred to as ‘sweaty neckbeards’ and ‘casuals’. Because of the squish you have folks grouped together with different expectations. And this causes immense amounts of friction and bad juju.
- The repetitive too hard/too easy/too hard constant shift of M+ to where the goal posts are constantly moved from one season/xpac to another. The ultimate lack of consistency.
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M+ was a bad idea. Still is.
Slapping rotating affixes on trash to pump it up might work well in Diablo, but it’s a square peg in a round hole, for WoW.
Top of your list!
I’m glad there’s finally an understanding that the only thing that ever made M+ “popular” was the inflated gear, though.
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Folks should really specify “pug” M+. The gameplay loop itself is fine if you run in a coordinated group. If you run with randos it’s trash just like it’s always been.
Personally, I’m grateful they’re trying to destro rando M+. It’s a cesspool of hard carries and disappointment, all with yourself doing the hard carrying most of the time. Folks needed a reason to get better and here it is.
Bottom line, just make some pals. I don’t have time for committed gameplay myself but I’m actively trying to find folks who can play on a whim. It’s not easy that’s for sure. Will be worth it though. A group of pals is a million times better than randos.
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The reason is, is because blizzard has this horrible thing they do where they will constantly tinker with crap that does not need to be tinkered with.
This is one of blizzards biggest faults and they ahve been doing it since like wrath. Something will work just fine, the community likes it, there is no real complaint about it and all people want is more of IT, but blizzard in their infinite wisdom or lack there of, decides “You know what? Lets change this for no reason.” And its almost always a charge for the worse.
M+ and Prof are a great example of this. DF PF were fine, there were a few issues with some prof soft locking themselves and making leveling miserable, but overall the system was fine. Then they come in and screw it all up.
M+ Was fine for all of DF S1-4, S1 was a big rocky, but season 3 was great, then S4 was when they started to tinker. No one, and i mean NO ONE wanted the m+ squish, because it was not needed, not asked for, and not a benefit, but blizzard decided to tinker.
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Sounds like a good concise summary thanks for taking the time to write it out!
Yeah you probably already know my stance on the whole adding GR’s to WoW was probably a bad idea. You get far more gear and upgrades far more often and easier in D3 than you do here without all the group friction.
Why do you twist things so much? No one said “inflated gear”. The only reason to say “inflated gear” is when you disagree with my point that the rewards are “undertuned”. So I didn’t make your point, I quite clearly disagreed with your point.
You are quite poor at this whole ‘debate’ and ‘conversation’ thing, do you realize that?
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M+ is a fine idea, the issue is, it got away from itself.
M+ originally was meant to be an alternative gearing path for people who could not devote the time to doing raids on a set schedule, which when it first came out, it was pretty good at doing that, but it got away form itself and its become THE gearing path.
You mean like adding M+ to the game in the first place? Totally agree.
Except from day one it was something that crashed into raiding and altered it. An alternative gearing path would have an iron curtain separating it from raids.
No M+ was the evolution of challenge mode, as a way to provide people who could not devote the time to raiding the ability to get raid level gear.
M+ just got away from that original intent.
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Mythic raiders got butthurt that people other than themselves could potentially get mythic track gear once a week, and have been complaining ad nauseum about mythic plus being too easy for years. So blizz ruined their most popular PvE game mode by once again catering to the whims of the very small, yet very vocal, mythic raiding community.
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Honestly, I’m glad they’ve made m+ a lot harder. Its smooshed more players into norm and heroic dungeons where they belong.
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Except it was not, it offered gear but tier was still locked behind raid, same with usually BiS trinkets as well.
The issue with raid being crap for gearing is not an issue with M+ its an issue with Raid not keeping up with the times, and more importantly back to my original point, blizzard tinkering with crap.
Because they introduced the vault, Blizzard reduced the loot drops in both M+ and raid, this did not really effect M+ becuase you can keep running it, how ever, in raid, you only get 1 shot a week at a boss, meaning that reduction in loot was a bigger impact. Thats not a M+ issue, thats Blizzard tinkering with things becuase they wanted to add the great vault scratcher card.
They also removed token rerolls, which is another system that did not need to be removed but blizzard decided once more to tinker.
The problem with raid not being viable to gear is not a problem with M+, its a problem with raid, which is one i have been complaining about for years. Raid needs either multiple lock outs per week, or needs its loot pool doubled.
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It’s been that way since Blizz North got sucked up into the main company.
I’d say around the time of Ghostcrawler it got supercharged, then dev’s really took the attitude that they knew more about what we wanted than we actually did.
They put themselves on a pedestal for some reason, which is not at all how it used to be, that was when corpo gaming took over and the soul was ripped from this game.
The squish was partly my fault as I thought it made sense to ask for as climbing all those levels was a tad annoying. And some of us on the forums were talking about no timer M+ so Blizzard added in a no timer M0 version.
I even said I thought it was good to bring rewards of Mythic track in line with intended difficulty progression. It makes sense as it’s meant to be a harder thing to get. It also is an intelligent solution to some other issues.
So point is it’s not really Blizzards fault it’s our fault, but to be fair people have been complaining about M+ and how it is for years so ANY change will likely be good for it down the road. And they were already making it easier in DF the entire expansion as even I ran KSM.
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This is what main character syndrome looks like up close. Hate to ding that ego there but not a soul at blizzard listened to you to make that decision
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Oh no it’s true there’s been lots of player feedback from others including myself out there in the echo chambers that made Blizzard look at all of this. I don’t think they just spontaneously made these changes just after people were complaining about the same thing and giving feedback.
Therefore they love me and I’m important.
Padgarre destroyed M+ 