Why Covenants should be difficult to swap

I hope so.

Still waiting on an answer to this.

This really comes across like the people who say “I like my ground mount, therefore nobody else should be able to fly.”

Both positions make zero sense to me.

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I personally want there to be more content like that, more choices like that. Don’t take it away because people can’t stand not being 100% maximized for every bit of content.

I’ll just talk about this. The mistake you make is thinking that there is a choice. There is not. You pick right or else you are punished. And with blizzards track record of nerfs and buffs we can all see where this is going. People are going to select the “right” one, a patch comes out and nerfs it and suddenly this forum is going to be flooded with people rightfully stuck with something that is subpar.

Means nothing because it will be scrapped in 2 years and trying to pretend that its character defining is asinine because we dont get to keep what we build. The only thing that sticks with us is the class.

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This is going to play out just like azerite at the start of bfa. They will stick to not listening to the players, the n when the majority gets to finally play the game they too will complain and it will be changed.

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I decided to SWOT this. You can SWOT anything :smiley:

Goal: Letting covenants remain the same without either the ability to easily switch between them or removing/reducing/homogenizing power from them.

Helpful:

Internal

  • Maintain the original vision/design of the covenants
  • More character development/diversity

External

  • Players no longer feel obligated to change covenants & have little excuse to exclude people due to their covenant choice.
  • Players can pick the covenant that they find best suits their character

Harmful:

Internal

  • Have to balance abilities for class(12), spec (3), and covenant (4) and for Arena PVP, BG PVP, Raiding, and M+ (~144-576 total combinations depending on what mode actually matters internally)

  • More work/hours needs to go into balancing covenants

External

  • Players are frustrated that they can’t switch to the most optimal spec
  • Players are frustrated that they can’t easily try out other covenants and go back to them

I was originally 100% for keeping covenants as is, but after realizing that there would be at least 144 combinations to tune, it’s a hard sell (although doable which is why I’m still more in favor than not). I would love covenants to remain as intended, but how does everyone remain viable for the content they want to participate in? For example, if I pick a certain covenant and want to do M+, what happens if I hit a hard ceiling in terms of DPS output because of that choice? As a last resort I may need to switch to a covenant that I don’t like or be the weakest link in my group without any way to improve so that we may all continue to progress.

I have answered a similar question much earlier in the thread, but to your question:

Because that is anathema to the sort of content I desire - content where you make (mostly) permanent choices that have similarly permanent effects.

I.E. I am not merely a paladin who is playing as Kyrian right now, but I am a Kyrian Paladin, and it would be as difficult to swap as going from exalted Scryer to exalted Aldor.

To me, what you ask is no different than someone who asks to be able to swap classes whenever it is convenient.

Sure, you could stick with one class if you wanted to, but the game would be changed regardless. Similar to covenants, you would no longer be a Druid, but a level 120 who happens to be a Druid right now.

No they’ll do this… I think the people wishing this wasn’t the case are thinking very very wishfully. But it can and will happen.

Then just stick with the covenant.

Why does it matter to you if I can switch covenants without a huge grind?

I am insanely thrilled that Blizzard is adding some real depth to character progression. This is what the game needs.

So the issue is that is anathema to an MMO. Where permanent choices literally break the game for other players. Because only one player can make them (thus ruining the ability of other players to see the story.). Inherently MMOs must remain static in large part as a result. They can never be the truest of RPGs as well as a result. Moreover that’s anathema to WoW’s casual ethos. If players wanted to play EverQuest… they can, it’s not dead yet.

The game was doing much better without systems like this though.

It means they aren’t interested in meaningful character progression. This is an mmoRPG, this isn’t Fortnite or Call of Duty where you should just log on and jump into whatever content you want then log out till next time. This is the wrong genre for that.

For the same reason we don’t have a ‘swap class’ button or a ‘kill the boss’ button. Sure, you could pretend those buttons don’t exist, but you can’t deny how they would affect the game:

The system being instantly swappable makes the idea of being the champion of a given covenant a joke.

Given how terrible Blizzard is at game balance, I’m more and more thinking they SHOULD put in a class swap button.

After 15 years on the Druid, I’m finally switching to Monk in Shadowlands. Not because I want to, but because BLIZZARD IS HORRIBLE AT GAME BALANCE and I’m finally fed up with holding back my raid team by playing the character I want (Guardian Druid) instead of the character I should (Brewmaster).

And you know what?

There isn’t gonna be any semblance of balance with covenants, either. Some are going to be grossly more powerful than others, and Blizzard is going to haplessly flail their arms around panicking at the mess they’ve made, like they always do.

And given that Blizzard is SO BAD at game balance, it’s essential at this point that they allow people to switch things, because to do otherwise is to make the players pay for Blizzard’s ineptitude.

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There definitely should be a swap class button.

Blizzard must not cave to the loud minority, meaningful choice is what we want. Sub class is what we want. Another irrelevant secondary progression system is not what we want

I already put in tons of work. I really don’t need one more layer of effort to separate me from enjoying what this game has to offer and I don’t need another layer to prevent me from playing alts.

it does NOT have that old-timey RPG feel to it. WoW ISN’T that. It’s an MMORPG. For a single player game with a mostly linear story line… sure, that’s fine. But WoW is a complex community of activities and each requires a different set of tools to be successful.

This just sounds terrible to me. I enjoy playing at a high level and that has come naturally as I have played over the years. This would limit my ability to play my toon to their fullest potential and would likely force me to pick one type of content to focus on.

The more open this game has become, the better. Instead… we have gotten more and more systems that do nothing but frustrate people. I’m done with systems on systems on systems on systems that offer up nothing but borrowed power.

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as I see it, you’re the loud minority. another borrowed powered system is not what we want.

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That’s what this really comes down to, though: Escoger hates you as a person because you play at a high level, and he wants you to suffer.