Why can't we have a simple PvP gearing system

[Mortifer-antonidas]

By simple system I mean just grind out enough honor/conquest points until the player has a full set. Then the player can decide whether or not they want to be a rating pusher or casual player. Because right now,

I don’t understand why there needs to be

• Renown requirements
• Upgrade requirements
• Rating requirements

It’s not enjoyable. It’s not fun to do. The forums are flooded with complaints about the gearing process.

If there has to be some sort of time sink process. At the very least implement

A) Loot drops from non-rated/rated PvP to make this gear process a lot less painful
or
B) Allow players to convert 15k honor points to allow us to buy 1 piece of conquest gear once a week. Because players are sitting on mounds of HP with nothing to spend it on outside of marks of honor/upgrades.
or
C) Remove the renown requirement.

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

They made a mistake bumping up the honor gear to 197. Should have kept honor gear at 190, cut the honor to upgrade the gear to 190 by half. Then bumped the base conquest to 207.

Throw in some gem tokens to gem three pieces of gear as you see fit as the PVP season progressed.

[Beijixiong-stormrage]

time played metrics baby

Why have something simple that works when you can time gate/rating gate it so people have to play longer?

[Eclípse-proudmoore]

I agree that they need to simplify and improve the gearing system for the casual BG player base. I don’t understand why they are treating this area of the game as a side part of wow.
Back IN WOTLK, all i had to do was get WGS gear into BG gear and i was fine for most of the expansion. Which is why WOTLK was my fav expac.

Down below I posted a link to a gearing system I made. No farming for gear, everyone is equal. Only the way people customize their stats, traits, and talents will be the factor.

I think it’s a very simple system, with a lot of customization potential.

link: PVP Gearing Rework -- Template Page System

[Gedpriest-queldorei]

because currently the gear competes with pve gear and vice versa

this broken foundation is what breaks the entire system for pvp

you’ve got to understand that the current bliz team has a minimum grind time applied to everything in pve and they don’t want anything in pvp to shortcut that grind because it is tied to the most important metric for them

if you look at the pvp system, they tried to apply the same gear power ownership levels to pvp that they see in pve by using rating as the separator - this was a completely pve decision used to determine the entire pvp gearing

further they made pvp starting gear take much longer than any other possible pve grind for starter gear, again to stop it from shortcutting the grind time

there is no possible way to reconcile the two systems without one suffering if the gear is exactly the same in both modes

this is why, after many many years and lots of different systems, the founders had arrived at scaling and pvp stats to differentiate the two systems

then Ion took over, and started reinventing the wheel on a ton of stuff including pvp gearing

first we got templates that had an inherent 10% gap exacerbated by other borrowed power rewards and almost everyone with the best gear came from pve (legion) - pve gear dominated

then we got BfA with the bizarre conquest vendor system that used a schedule of slots for you to acquire regardless of whether they were weaker than what you had already, or effectively duplicates, or if you really needed something else to make a bigger difference - the system specialized in negative feedback loops and chased out tons of players - pve was the only good choice for the vast majority of players in pvp

now we have slands where it is just power for rating which means anything under a certain rating is worthless AND there is no bottom honor set because the one provided starts so low and takes so long to bring up to anything remotely relevant

Director Ion faced with staggering statistics on carries and how many pve players were paying for pvp gear, admits for the first time EVER that they might need to look at WoD style scaling to avoid the gear conflicts.

90% of pvp players are under 1799 which means almost everyone in pvp isn’t getting any form of worthwhile gear from pvp (yet again as is normal in every single Ion led xpac)

But the 9.1 ptr comes out and they changed their mind and just made a mild scaling tweak, pvp gear half a difficulty weaker in pve, and vice versa in pvp which will barely change anything as the bottom 90% will still have no gear they care about and the carries will continue as the fastest pve shortcut to gear.

again because they are trying to integrate pvp gear into their pve grind systems despite pvp gear having a completely different endgame goal of equality for all players after a low grind time requirement to become competitive

[Mortifer-antonidas]

@Gedpriest-queldorei

because currently the gear competes with pve gear and vice versa

this broken foundation is what breaks the entire system for pvp

you’ve got to understand that the current bliz team has a minimum grind time applied to everything in pve and they don’t want anything in pvp to shortcut that grind because it is tied to the most important metric for them

if you look at the pvp system, they tried to apply the same gear power ownership levels to pvp that they see in pve by using rating as the separator - this was a completely pve decision used to determine the entire pvp gearing

further they made pvp starting gear take much longer than any other possible pve grind for starter gear, again to stop it from shortcutting the grind time

there is no possible way to reconcile the two systems without one suffering if the gear is exactly the same in both modes

this is why, after many many years and lots of different systems, the founders had arrived at scaling and pvp stats to differentiate the two systems

then Ion took over, and started reinventing the wheel on a ton of stuff including pvp gearing

first we got templates that had an inherent 10% gap exacerbated by other borrowed power rewards and almost everyone with the best gear came from pve (legion) - pve gear dominated

then we got BfA with the bizarre conquest vendor system that used a schedule of slots for you to acquire regardless of whether they were weaker than what you had already, or effectively duplicates, or if you really needed something else to make a bigger difference - the system specialized in negative feedback loops and chased out tons of players - pve was the only good choice for the vast majority of players in pvp

now we have slands where it is just power for rating which means anything under a certain rating is worthless AND there is no bottom honor set because the one provided starts so low and takes so long to bring up to anything remotely relevant

Director Ion faced with staggering statistics on carries and how many pve players were paying for pvp gear, admits for the first time EVER that they might need to look at WoD style scaling to avoid the gear conflicts.

90% of pvp players are under 1799 which means almost everyone in pvp isn’t getting any form of worthwhile gear from pvp (yet again as is normal in every single Ion led xpac)

But the 9.1 ptr comes out and they changed their mind and just made a mild scaling tweak, pvp gear half a difficulty weaker in pve, and vice versa in pvp which will barely change anything as the bottom 90% will still have no gear they care about and the carries will continue as the fastest pve shortcut to gear.

again because they are trying to integrate pvp gear into their pve grind systems despite pvp gear having a completely different endgame goal of equality for all players after a low grind time requirement to become competitive

This was a wonderful read, thank you for taking the time to write it.

[Rednekognize-bleeding-hollow (Rednekognize)]

Because in the long run it causes people to leave faster

[Fengar-antonidas]

The long post above this is completely right. If they were to make PvP gear easier to grind by lowering requirements then PvE players feel like they have to PvP to be competitive which is not fair to them. That same situation happened to PvPers in Legion and it sucked royally.
They need to make the grind more rewarding in PvP by giving out more honor and conquest per game, or just lowering gear prices, AS WELL AS making PvE much more fruitful in the gear it gives out. Heck even the Legion system where you got gear drops at the end of games that could upgrade would even help.

[Holybell-crushridge]

All of this works. Change your time-table to WOW’s time-table and it all works.

Do we like it? Not so much. But when the game came out, people were dying from playing too much and drinking caffiene and eating hotpockets and playing 24/7 so now we have a strict time-line. Just enjoy it.

[Beliara-zangarmarsh]

@Gedpriest-queldorei

then Ion took over, and started reinventing the wheel on a ton of stuff including pvp gearing

This is the problem with wow. Look who has been in charge since Legion, and look how the game has gone downhill ever since.
The person making all the final decisions has never played Ally and have never bothered with PVP. So just how does said person have any clue on how to fix anything?

[Nickaeladin-thrall]

@Gedpriest-queldorei

because currently the gear competes with pve gear and vice versa

this broken foundation is what breaks the entire system for pvp

you’ve got to understand that the current bliz team has a minimum grind time applied to everything in pve and they don’t want anything in pvp to shortcut that grind because it is tied to the most important metric for them

if you look at the pvp system, they tried to apply the same gear power ownership levels to pvp that they see in pve by using rating as the separator - this was a completely pve decision used to determine the entire pvp gearing

further they made pvp starting gear take much longer than any other possible pve grind for starter gear, again to stop it from shortcutting the grind time

there is no possible way to reconcile the two systems without one suffering if the gear is exactly the same in both modes

this is why, after many many years and lots of different systems, the founders had arrived at scaling and pvp stats to differentiate the two systems

then Ion took over, and started reinventing the wheel on a ton of stuff including pvp gearing

first we got templates that had an inherent 10% gap exacerbated by other borrowed power rewards and almost everyone with the best gear came from pve (legion) - pve gear dominated

then we got BfA with the bizarre conquest vendor system that used a schedule of slots for you to acquire regardless of whether they were weaker than what you had already, or effectively duplicates, or if you really needed something else to make a bigger difference - the system specialized in negative feedback loops and chased out tons of players - pve was the only good choice for the vast majority of players in pvp

now we have slands where it is just power for rating which means anything under a certain rating is worthless AND there is no bottom honor set because the one provided starts so low and takes so long to bring up to anything remotely relevant

Director Ion faced with staggering statistics on carries and how many pve players were paying for pvp gear, admits for the first time EVER that they might need to look at WoD style scaling to avoid the gear conflicts.

90% of pvp players are under 1799 which means almost everyone in pvp isn’t getting any form of worthwhile gear from pvp (yet again as is normal in every single Ion led xpac)

But the 9.1 ptr comes out and they changed their mind and just made a mild scaling tweak, pvp gear half a difficulty weaker in pve, and vice versa in pvp which will barely change anything as the bottom 90% will still have no gear they care about and the carries will continue as the fastest pve shortcut to gear.

again because they are trying to integrate pvp gear into their pve grind systems despite pvp gear having a completely different endgame goal of equality for all players after a low grind time requirement to become competitive

This, this right here. This sums up what happened and what’s wrong with the current system as it is.

It also sums up what I am feeling about pvp right now since it’s my preferred content. So much so that I haven’t hardly set foot into a battleground of any kind in weeks. I honestly don’t know if I will pvp anymore until they do something to fix this among other issues.

Thank you for taking the time to write all of this. I really wish Blizzard would see posts like these and take it into consideration.

[Malberode-area-52]

al ot of people are just plain hypocrits man, in nearly any wow xpac, some of the bis gear for pvp came from pve, pvers could really jump easily in pvp and kill people with their pve gear but if the game goes the other way around, they start crying and whining about how its unfair to do some pvp for their epic pixels

[Forsh-saurfang]

The rating requirement to upgrade is stupid.

[Beijixiong-stormrage]

Don’t think they care about the long run, getting good stats for a month is more important.

[Rattfinkk-stormrage]

@Beijixiong-stormrage

time played metrics baby

Why have something simple that works when you can time gate/rating gate it so people have to play longer?

I just cant believe this. Everything SL has introduced has led me to play much much less than BfA.
Even to the point where i have straight up stopped doing PvP altogether. (and this was something i did for 4 or 5 hours a day 5 days a week.)

[Holybell-crushridge]

Playing less, but paying the same? Sounds like a perfect market strategy

[Dacorogue-tichondrius]

Because they want you to stay subbed for as long as possible without having to make a good game.

[Eclípse-proudmoore]

But isn’t it better to just make a template system where you customize your gear Like the one i posted above?
link: PVP Gearing Rework -- Template Page System

With this system, there is no way PVErs will feel like they need to PVP to be competitive. The gear is attached to a template system that is only useable and accessible in Battlegrounds.

Off battlegrounds, the stats and customizations disappear, leaving you a blank canvas. So there is no way to take this into a pve setting to be competitive and vice versa. There is no way PVE gear would be better than this due to the template having BIS gea.

I think its an easy solution to this mess.

i just don’t understand why they can’t do something simple like this and stick to it. It would solve so many headaches and bring so much more to the pvp side of the game.

[Fengar-antonidas]

A template system would remove the feeing of a reward incentive. And that was the probably that plagued BFA and legion, PvP felt like a waste of time because there were no reasonable rewards outside of a few gold and the lousy honor rank system.
Gearing up is one of the best feelings you can find in PvP and slowly seeing your character become more powerful is a great thing. Just maybe not to the extent that it is now.

[Gedpriest-queldorei]

agree that pvp needs a reward system for long term participation for most players

templates are the absence of a big chunk of normal rewards

those rewards don’t have to utterly screw up balance either, they can be very close together in power and attainable by all