That is literally the whole point I was trying to make.
If I took two apples from person A and two oranges from person B, who had it worse? All depends on which you think are better, apples or oranges.
YOU might not value the cities the Alliance lost, doesn’t mean Alliance players don’t.
Let’s break this down. Why are you only talking about characters? Is it because you think you can win the loss discussion there? The ‘don’t bring up the cities’ is usually a way of dodging what the other side lost. But, isn’t a loss still a loss?
And let’s talk about characters. The Alliance has lost more in terms of raw numbers. In those two cities there were LOTS of named, quest, vendor, etc. NPCs lost. So, how do you rank them. How many ‘D’ level characters equal a ‘C’, then a ‘B’ and on? How do you determine which characters matter more? The Horde has lost 3 Warchief’s (though one of those is still alive) where the Alliance lost one of comparable rank. Where do you go from there? How many characters that were staples of the leveling experience like Marcus does it take to equal a Warchief. How many generals, admirals, etc. does it take to equal out?
At the end of the day you are just making a value call based on your own personal feeling about which side actually lost more. It boils down to what you value most. And that is always going to be your preferred side. That is why you will VERY often see Horde players list Nazgrim as a big loss (it happened in this thread) while ignoring Taylor. And Nazgrim/Taylor were literally mirror NPCs. The served all the same rolls, even sparred with each other. But for Horde players Nazgrim was valuable, Taylor was not. So, for them, Nazgrim matters, Taylor does not. (Assuming they were even aware of Taylor, some people are shockingly ignorant of the other faction.)
The bottom line at the end of the day:
Horde has had losses
Alliance has had losses.
It’s a thread about a specific character, and how characters are treated.
If it was a thread about Taurajo or Teldrassil, then I would talk about cities. And if someone brought up characters I’d be like… ok but the thread is about a city.
I think your typical alliance fanatical fan is obsessed with the losss of cities, because they know for a fact that the alliance lost nobody important outside of Varian, who got to have a heroes death mind you. He wasn’t killed by the opposing faction while they got to raid the opposing factions capital
So when every thread ultimately goes down the Who lost more rabbit hole, they harp on Teldrassil and Theramore because if we’re being honest, that’s all they really have.
My speculation, is that we will find out, maybe even know what kinds of “Deals” and with “WHO” he was dealing with using the Brokers… I can see Brokers, him and maybe other more nefarious foes, having deals with Gallywix in Shadowlands or beyond.
There is a popular rumor that I think started with a Youtuber (at least that I’m aware of but it could have originated from here or reddit) that he might not be Gallywix at all and could be in fact the Dreadlord “Detheroc”. The Undermine"D", where the D seems to be purposely point out something so I guess some players thought of the Dreadlords. I think it’s just wordplay, BUT I LOVE Dreadlords and would not mind or be surprised if they be involved on this as allies of convenience to Xal’atath for some hidden reason that could be expose and/or lead to Midnight etc.
I was honestly hoping he had but, in true Goblin fashion, his free trial expires in midair and he plummets to his death and explodes. “Oh, you piece of cr-” boom
But I get it, you just need try and redirect. You think ‘stick to only characters, nothing else,’ is a winner for the victim role.
Let’s bottom line it, since you are so focused on ‘characters.’
Alliance has lost objective more total characters (partially because of the whole cities and territories being razed). So, if you REALLY believe you can take context out and only focus on one small bit you have say Horde characters should die more to make up the difference. IF you want to ignore other loses, like cities, you have to ignore subjective valuation of characters. IF that is what you believe you would also have to believe Gallywix should die because the Horde needs to catch up on deaths.
But we both know all you are really doing is trying to pick and choose what counts, while adding your own subjective values.
For example: How you act as though Gallywix, a relatively minor racial leader who was always up to no good while being generally disliked is so VERY different from Staghelm, a relative minor racial leader who was always up to no good while being generally disliked.
The key is that Gallywix was funnier than Staghelm and never really insulted or looked down on the player themselves. That’s the component that means the playerbase can often never be objective when it comes to complex characters or characters in general. Gallywix fought the players in the goblin starter zone and that definitely made him disliked, but then he vanished for years in the game and came back as the fat sleazy businessman with the funny hat. He also wasn’t super involved in the Fourth War nor the faction war as a whole.
Fandral, on the other hand, was mean to the players, which is a death sentence or a chance to get written out. If the playerbase doesn’t like a character, they’re going to die or be gone, with some exceptions, and the playerbase will excuse characters they think are cool. Same thing happened with Garrosh.
Yes thank you. This is the kind of trope that fits in many stories. Those quests are all over Azshara and Zandalar too wherever goblins show up. And reading his short story how he schemed his way to the top was also kinda cool.
He showed up to goblin player characters a bit and each time he tried to kill us and us getting the upper hand of him. When he didn’t fight us, he insulted us instead.
So yeah, he was the antagonist to the goblin player character from the start.
blink Huh… I haven’t messed around with the PTR, so I’m unsure if I missed something here.
I just know that goblins can change cartels, as seen with Gazlowe leaving the Steamwheddle to lead Bilgewater and Gallywix leaving Bilgewater and making Darkfuse.
He literally is right now, dude is using black blood to fuel machines for Xala-feet. Matter of fact, dude kicked off the BFA war with the Azerite thing so he can get as much gold as he can get out of the Horde while he quietly leaves while the world burns around him.
I say this as someone who wants and likes races that’s still practice slavery to this day, being the naga, ogres, man’ari; I think it’s really kind of obvious why he’s got to go my dude.
He’s not even the best goblin villain, but he’s certainly irredeemable.
I would rip out Gallywix’s arterie clogged heart to revive Blackfuse in a second.
This fascinate me, i really want to know how is it like to always think this way :
I mean, you have a great universe, with many lore and stories, and all kind of characters, and all kind of stuff to explore, and then, there is people like you who cant help themselves ALWAYS thinking with a “facton pov”.
I really dont understand how some people can be so triggered by this bi-faction pov bs, as if the world will end because “omg the Horde lost one more city than the Alliance!!!” as if the story, the lore had to always be a 1:1 and that we had to constantly take the account of the “points”
I am really sad that it is all that the lore as come to for so many players…
Do you imagine if we did that for literally every single stories? Then why do we do it for wow?