Why are so many people mad about Survival Hunter... its the best performing spec in the game right now

Classes Hunter
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A convienent copout is another word for legitimate reasoning, theres a reason its so convienent.

The thin excuse for melee hunter pre legion is the same watery nonsense you could spew for ranged rogue with their ability to equip ranged weapons, hell outlaw uses a pistol shot now what more could you need to prove my point.

MoP and wrath were the peak of survival before they killed it in WoD so they could revamp it with no resistence in legion. Youre the one here derailing posts considering the title of this thread, but I suppose you literally being a troll is a bit on the nose.

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And any ability that used the weapon in the ranged slot, like fan of knives in wrath. You also could put two points in Throwing Specialization in the combat tree, to increase the range of Throw and Deadly Throw, and give a chance to stun on deadly throw.

If Im not mistaken, couldnt you poison the thrown weapon as well?

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Don’t forget that Warriors could use range weapons as well, which would lead to a range / tank spec.

You could throw diffrent weapons to stun or keep aggro. It be like Keg Smash for Warriors.

Also melee mages too. Which would use spells to empower their attacks.

If melee hunters became a reality than any other unlikely combination of two spec could be possible.

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I would say that any class with 3 specs in one role (obviously dps, but here I mean ranged or melee) should have one of their specs switched to the other role… but they first need to fix encounter design.

Heck… they need to fix almost everything.

We talk about MoP SV and how good it was, but I wildly speculate that, had they made SV melee in MoP when specs were invented, it would have been much more popular then, than it is right now, and it would still be popular today… because MoP was an objectively better game. The pacing of the story was better. The world was better. PvP was better. Gearing was better. The art was better. Crafting was better. Cooking was better. The faction conflict was better. The comic relief was better. Rep grinds were better.

But I digress…

Rogue could totally sacrifice one of the dagger specs for a sniper/operative spec. Mage could sacrifice a spec for a battle mage spec. There are no classes with three tanking specs. There isnt a single class with more than one. Same with healers. Not even warriors could manage to make three tanking specs feel distinct without robbing from the styles of other classes tank specs. Its silly to pretend that dps, and particularly ranged DPS is somehow immune to feeling samey. Its silly to pretend (even if you believe all three pre legion specs were unique) that people are insane for thinking three specs shooting colored ammo from ranged weapons were a bit too similar.

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More like a profound mental gymnastic. Seems alot of people here are pretty athletic when it comes to those.

except it isnt. Ranged rogue wasnt really a thing. There were spell damage rogues but thats about it. Melee hunters have existed for along time. Theres even a video of someones msv hunter in classic doing melee spell damage and its viable for dungeons. Good try there.

Fraid not. I never derail it, I just add on to the nonsense people spew here after they derail. Again, good try scooter.

I mean possibly, but I never seen or heard someone doing this. Its possible

That auto shoot was viable def

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Heroic Throw was important for generating threat, and Gag Order made it a ranged silence that was vital to positioning casters.

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There is such a thing as a copout, though. Like, for example, when someone is caught out on contradicting himself so they claim what they said before was a joke (see Toxiktraktor’s videos) :clown_face:

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I’m mad at it cause…-looks at a page with lines with a black arrow at my back- It’s a ranged spec with a melee weapon. You cant shoot with an axe or spear a real hunter needs a ranged weapon… -Blurts out- Wait? what about Aspect of the eagle? -Arrow pokes into me harder and I panic and dropping my script and faint dead in front of the crowd and the shadowed figure leaps back into the depths of the internet hidden from sight as his cover plops onto the ground pretending to be dead. But yea we need more magic-flinging melee weapon attacks or Aspect of Eagle becoming a passive.

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This happened when spec started to bleed into one another. They started to shar too many abilities and just all felt like they were one same spec with one unique ability. If the designers could treat each spec down from other specs and see were they had differentia then why not hunters? My guess is they just di not have enough time to play each spec and went off of other players ideas or just visual ques.

I think AotE is situational and I most often just forget it exist. If SV has Aim Shot and Arcane why not let SV be unique in that it can switch weapons based on distance. They can leave Aimed and Arcane as is that way you would still need to be in melee range to be a full potential; however, you could weave in-between targets easier.

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I pretty much only use it when someone in a dress tries to kite me.

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Stop making sense, that isn’t allowed here.

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It doesn’t make much sense actually because while the game’s population has gone down as the quality has declined Survival is less played proportionally than before.

Making SV melee in MoP would be problematic for most of the same reasons. It might not be quite as controversial because we wouldn’t have seen ranged SV’s most successful iteration, but it would still be extremely controversial nonetheless. Let’s not forget that ranged SV was the most highly represented spec in the entire game in the latter half of Cataclysm so imagine going from that position to completely removed in 5.0.

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Seeing how in MoP we lost melee abilities all together it might have been less controversial to have one spec go full melee. Player might have seen it as two spec going completely range while one went in the opposite direction. At same time more hunter would be use to the idea of hunter having melee abilities.

Blizzard making the change so late had many wondering why a class that was designed as a range dps class would suddenly have a melee spec. There was a number of years between MoP and Legion that players just had forgotten about melee or many of the newest players who never even had the experience of melee would be at a loss as to why they lost a spec to melee.

It comes to the class designers that we had in MoP from to who we have now driving the design team. All three hunter specs were a blast to play because they all felt fun, fast, and mobile. Especially marksmanship hunter.

Warriors also had a fun and fast play style where you actually felt survivable in most situations. I wish I could play mop arms warrior again.

Shadow priests were the best they’d ever been in terms of fluid play style. All three warlock specs felt fresh, fun and full of life with options to cast while moving and high damage as well.

Mistweaver monks get dynamic and it was a play style all its own. Windwalker monks were also fun and complex to play with a very high speed play style at high haste levels.

Sure classes had similar abilities, but there was always flair to it. For instance shadowburn was basically execute for warlock, but what made it unique was the it cost an ember to use, had range, and if it killed, it refunded a burning ember. Which was huge. And having access to this ability opened up a lot possibility for dynamic plays to be made based on the result of the spell.

People cried homogenization, and bam, all abilities similar to execute were removed. Now warlocks have a crappy husk of what was once shadowburn. Its one dimensional and doesn’t change up our gameplay at all.

Shadowburn is only one example. There were many abilities across all classes that got gimped. And now even though similar abilities were gutted, classes feel more similar than ever. Everything is a builder/spender with one damage cool down, and basically 3 button rotations.

The classes were not homogenized just because they had similar tools. Every class had a unique rotation, visual flair, and playstyle.

Yes legion and bfa really “Looked” nice, but when you actually get down to playing the classes they all feel just about the same and that causes stagnation. It comes down to “well what color do I want my abilities to be” instead of I want to play this class because it can do these things no other class can do and it feels like it should.

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You are accusing me of mental gymnastics, but good lord you’re the entire Summer Olympics of misremembering history. We literally just went through classic again and I didn’t see MSV running around as this super popular always relevant thing you speak of.
I give you a bronze medal for effort though. (Which is way nicer than your sticker fetish btw)

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Just a minor thing, but specs(core specializations) were added in Cataclysm. They also heavily reduced the amount of talents in each respective category, essentially taking many of the more defining talents, and put them in as part of the core spec that was tied to said category. And ofc, it was with Cata that we got the change from Mana to Focus, as a resource.

MoP brought the heavy redesigns to talents, as a system. This was when they removed categories/trees and instead gave us the “modern” system with talent rows, just, back then the talents were fully class-wide, not exclusive to any spec.

I guess it would depend on your definition of popular, but there would probably more players playing that spec in general, yes. Relative to our other specs? Perhaps, perhaps not.

In many ways, agreed. Although, some parts of this are ofc subjective in nature.

Priest.

Immune? Ofc not, but also, “feeling samey” is in many ways an expression based on subjective views.

I wouldn’t go as far as to call them “insane”, but the problem there is that such opinions are based on reductionist logic. And more importantly, again, apparently, such logic was only applied to hunters, going into Legion.

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It can already weapon swap to do that it takes up a bag slot instead of a secondary weapon slot and it takes like 3-5sec before you can start attacking again and you got to try swap back to use kill shot and often target dies while swapping the action is so slow. it just feels clunky and im falling in love with idea of SV hunter being a spell sword and trapper with beasts companions.

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I think its safe to assume Ogdenir is suggesting that they be able to equip both, and the combat system does the swapping automatically.

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Exactly, just like hunter were able to before MoP, just no dead zone. The range weapon would be just a cosmetic item that offered no stats, so no need to farm another weapon. Both range attacks would stay as they are that way melee would still be it strongest abilities, and then can not argue that players would just stay at range.

The idea for this is so SV could be a spec that blends range and melee seamlessly. Able to flip sides with out any time limits attached.

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I always said it was a joke. I never said it wasnt. You were too braindead to acknowledge that even when I have been telling you this for 9 months. This is what is known as manipulation of information. You never had a real narrative so you invented one.

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I never said it was super popular nor relevant. But it did exist and it was viable if done correctly. You should refrain from twisting the conversation because of a lack of an understanding on an online forum post.

Medal is better than the sticker any day. Would you like an autograph aswell since you love me so much? <3