Why are so many people mad about Survival Hunter... its the best performing spec in the game right now

That may be true. When I play ranged dps compared to melee, it was by far easier to deal with mechanics. Only fights with absurd amount of movement where bane for ranged DPS without solid mobility.

So Blizzard wanted to make sure people don’t invite only ranged specs to game. I still think reason it went melee is because artifact weapons.

Pre legion SV was always master of kiting. Even when it had melee abilities, they where used as last resource. In MoP it became true kiting machine. I just didn’t like hunter using shadow damage, I don’t like them now as well because of arcane damage they have in toolkit

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pretty sure that was due to the fact two of the specs were near identical

Dual wielding weapons wasn’t a SV feature back then, it was a class-wide function. And no, SV was not designed to make you want to abandon your ranged toolkit.

What you chose to do personally doesn’t mean that it was intended by design. “Method of playing” does not automatically equate to “intent of design”.

That’s not even close to how the hunter class, incl SV, was designed back then.

None of this refutes the argument that “SV wasn’t melee in Vanilla”. Again, whether you chose to focus solely on using your melee abilities over anything else, this is irrelevant to the argument of what was intended by design.

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Hunters needed melee abilities due to them having a few factors. First they did not learn how to tame pets until they were level 10, so even if they pulled from max distance they would at some point have to use melee combat.

Secondly, we had to carry ammo to use range weapons, so you could run out of ammo that ment again having to use melee combat to finish off you opponent. Likewise, you could save ammo by staying at range until the last moment then run in to finish your target with melee.

Than there was the dead zone. That ment if someone was able to get into that small area you had an option to use melee attacks to slow your attacker down long enogh to get back to range combat.

Survival was the tree designed to improve your traps and melee combat that way you were not completely incapable and was really designed with the pvp aspect of WoW in mind. However, it was not designed to be a melee spec as its only melee ability Lacerate was very weak, and then removed only after a year for Wyvern Sting. Again designed with pvp intended.

Melee hunters upto Legion traditionally, hunters were designed and relegated to be played as a ranged class and the legitimacy of a hunter in the melee
role was rarely considered. However, with a lot of effort and time on their hands some players took up melee as a play-style. These hunter were never taken seriously and just looked at as a hunters who needed to stand out.

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Almost pointless to argue with people who believe this at this point, but Survival had a heavy focus on dots and magical damage. Its mastery was a damage modifier for magic damage and it was in no way identical to Marksman other than sharing the same class.

Its the same idea as me, having no knowledge of rogue, going everywhere and saying “Its three identical specs! Theyre all melee and need reworking cause theyre exactly the same!”

See, I dont do that cause I don’t know jack about rogue and keep my mouth shut, which is great advice for anyone who unironically believes this regurgitated nonsense at this point.

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Arcane shot has been in the game since the beginning. It wasn’t until Legion at the most that it was removed from other specs.

Just wanted to point out one thing really quick.

The Hunter “Dead Zone” does not refer to using melee because the target is too close for ranged abilities. The “Dead Zone” is in reference to the area farther than 5 meters (max melee distance) but closer than 8 meters (minimum ranged distance)… thus making the target unable to be attacked.

It was fixed around the time Zulaman came out, iirc.

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Yea it was and I don’t like it. I said I didn’t like it because of black arrow , and now when it’s gone I don’t like it still because they use arcane damage. Even before same thing. I don’t like hunters with magic

With Rogues, you have stealth skills, poison skills, and combat skills. Each of the three specs enhances these set of skills. Sub is the stealth, Assassination is the poison, and Combat/Outlaw is the combat. All rogues can stealth. All rogues can use poisons. All rogues know how to do open combat. Even so, they’re not quite so similar.

With Hunters, you have pet combat, weapon combat, and environmental combat. Beastmaster does the major pet stuff, Marksman does the major weapon stuff, and Survival handled things like improvised weapons, traps, poisons, etc.

I mained a warlock. Same story with that class. All warlocks can use curses. All warlocks can drain life. All warlocks use demons. All warlocks can use destructive spells.

I like to think there wasn’t a problem with any one spec being too similar to others, so the SV argument didn’t really make sense to me. An SV never played the same way as a BM or MM did unless it’s on general ground of using a pet, using a RANGED weapon primarily, using traps, and enjoying Aspects.

It’s true to version 1.12. They picked the last patch of classic which makes sense because it’s the most complete and balanced version. It would be nonsense to try to go through each Classic patch cycle.

In any case you still wouldn’t pick Survival and run into melee in version 1.1. If you truly played Vanilla you would know that each point of Agility gave 2 ranged attack power and 1 melee attack power, meaning your ranged attacks scale far beyond your melee attacks. There were only a few talents that buffed melee damage and they did not buff it by much. This is because they were intended for situational usage, not as the primary mode of dealing damage.

You should also know that dual-wielding was not preferable for melee damage. Raptor Strike scaled with main weapon damage so melee-weaving playstyles used two-handed weapons.

You should know that Toxiktraktor himself didn’t believe that point until he abruptly changed his mind. Here’s a video of him talking about SV in Classic:

In it he says that SV Hunter was a ranged spec and that it was distinct from Marksmanship. He changed his mind a couple years later because he wants to defend modern melee SV.

When confronted with this he first tried to argue that the video only applied to classic WoW and it was nonsense to use it in a discussion about modern SV. We pointed out that this doesn’t change the fact that what he says now contradicts what he says in the video (he specifically mentions WotLK Explosive Shot SV in the video as distinct from MM), he now says the video is satirical… even though it contains no humour or absurd statements and evidently no one watched it and took it as a joke.

Yes it was fixed in the Zul’aman patch 2.3. Since BC classic uses patch 2.4 class balancing and design there was no deadzone from the start of BC classic even though in BC we spent the first few months still having the 5-8 yard deadzone.

Supposedly the reason they had the deadzone in the first place was because they didn’t think they could have a smooth transition between ranged and melee for Hunters. Which makes no sense at all, of course, but a ton of their early Hunter class design decisions didn’t make much sense. They were mostly winging it.

Black Arrow and Arcane Shot exist for historical reasons.

Arcane Shot was first added on release because they wanted more classes using arcane damage. A bit strange if you ask me but that’s the original reason. They were actually not going to have Arcane Shot in BFA in favour of a physical damage version called Quick Shot but I think they didn’t want to abandon Arcane Shot after so many years so they changed it back before BFA beta was over.

Quick Shot is the first ability in my action bar in this video:

Black Arrow was added because they needed a shot that emulated a trap so that SV Hunters had a way of proccing Lock and Load without trap dancing. We were going to get Trap Launcher in 3.1 but they decided they couldn’t get it working properly in time so they left it for the next expansion. They chose Black Arrow because Sylvanas used it in Warcraft 3 and it was going to be the level 80 ability for Hunters in WotLK; originally it was going to be Camouflage but they decided against it because Rogues complained about Hunters getting stealth (they changed their minds in Cataclysm), then Black Arrow which was a dot and a movement speed decrease, then they settled on Freezing Arrow (ranged Freezing Trap placer i.e. another temporary solution for not having Trap Launcher). So they already had some implementation of Black Arrow and they just reused it for SV because it was the spec that was doing more magic damage due to Explosive Shot so it seemed like a good fit.

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Ranged class turned abomination.
It’s disgusting.

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Actually I thought that Blizzard designed the raid encounters to INCLUDE ranged specs, in response to the community’s preference for melee. Ranged is just boring for the majority of us.

So what happened in raids was that they became UNFRIENDLY to melee. If they were more and more melee friendly, you would never need RDPS. It’s a weird roundabout way of Blizzard punishing the community for their preferences, like slapping a tax on being melee. That’s not exactly as the same as incentivizing ranged though…

Snuffing out the candles of melee DPS doesn’t make the ranged DPS candles burn brighter…

Yup. I think they’re still mostly winging it.

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I think it’s almost there though they have disengage and harpoon now they just need 2 full rotations that can share some skills with beasts or wildfire bombs. Zoom in and out of melee.

And yet literally most of the community will say otherwise hence the rework. No matter how you wanna jump around it, thats why it now lacks a bow.

solid opinion. Another reason combat was removed. Seems you knew what class to hop onto next to validate the point.

Still seems you dont get it but hey you tried man. Il give you a golden banana sticker for the effort.

Ah yes the meme channel that I stated since day one was for luls and Bepples still too low IQ to remember that even when I told him numerous times.

I never changed my mind. You never knew what my opinion of the matter was as again, you went off a channel where I played badly or made fun of MM for just being a TSA bot.
When I would tell you what I thought you didnt like it because you already took the time to write a massive post nobody cared about and hate being told your wrong.

Well because it was. It was a channel talking about making spell hunters being a thing which cant even be done in retail so… But you already knew this as we have had this dance before.

Again meme channel. Pay attention, never once claimed it was authentic.

I always have said it was satire. I never once claimed it was genuine.

You understand what dry humor is right? Nvm I already know that answer. You also probably think you’re a chef because you can cook a pop tart from reading the box.

Seriously it is beyond funny the actual IQ levels of the forum dwellers on the hunter page are this questionable. No wonder people make fun of people who main hunters for nearly two decades. Its just sad at this point.

I would argue that the people who actually know what theyre talking about on survival have quit because blizzard dumpstered their spec years ago and youre left with melee player alts who agree with bad takes because they don’t want to lose MSV

Yet it didnt magically become ranged, or some other ridiculous third thing, it stayed within the spirit of the original spec, hell its still combat but with a pirate theme if you don’t take roll the bones.

Careful bringing IQ into this, youve already assumed youre right because you know how to use the quote function on the forums, but by god I figured it out two days ago.

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Outlaw was an interesting addition to rogues; however, would not have it also been exciting to have a range option for rogues as well. Think about a Dark Ranger theme spec that used stealth and showdown magic.

Hunters would have two range specs with a melee and Rogues would have two melee and a range spec.

In Toxi’s eyes everyone’s an idiot, but they are the only one who knows this.

I loved ranged survival back in the day with black arrow, but I also enjoy the current iteration of survival. I do think it’s funny that when doing arenas I do more damage then my sub rogue partner and I almost never get in to melee range. I don’t know what Blizz’s plans are for survival in the next expansion, but I guess we’ll see how it goes. I’m personally a marks fan more than anything else.

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Sounds like a convenient copout. And just a heads up, This is my only melee I play. I play a shadow priest and afflic lock other than MSV. So no that is just coping logic per usual on the forums.

Well thing is, no matter what you wanna say about it Hunter could always melee. Rogues were never range in any form other than an auto shoot or throw weapon.

Want another golden banana sticker?

Rogues should have a range spec but blizzard wont do it so idk.

Not really. I respect alot of peoples opinions here. Its only idiotic when its the same derailing of a post because some people cant get passed the WoD play style of a spec nobody was ever really favorable.

It’s been the bomber AoE spec all expansion.

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