I’m coming back to the class after maining it in season 1 of DF. Ive played Rogue on and off for a lot of years. But I’ve only pvped on Rogue. Gonna focus on sin in M+ this patch and I see a lot of negativity.
I’m having fun so the answers won’t sway my decision to play it, but I’m curious to find out what people think needs to be fixed and why Rogues are being ignored?
Sin doesn’t have as much negativity. The dislike is mostly related to Outlaw and Subtlety for having unpopular core aspects that players absolutely must utilize for even moderate success. Basically playing those specs well requires doing things that aren’t fun for most people.
Some of it is preference. A lot would probably take a severe redesign to solve, possibly to the entire class. They may not have enough time to handle the kind of change that Rogues need.
I’m being deliberately broad here because I’d probably get long-winded otherwise.
Because our dev shows up once a year making some absolutely awful changes that nobody asked for that just makes the specs worse and then disappears until next expansion. Then interns at Blizzard give us flat damage buffs every other patch which will never even address the actual issues of the specs.
Only going to talk about Outlaw here but the change that happened to Adrenaline Rush is a great example because they slapped a mandatory 20% haste requirement for it to even work properly to drop it back down to giving you a 0.8s GCD. For the record, none of that is even MENTIONED in game either so if you’re new to the spec or a new player you will literally never even know this is a thing.
There’s also the fact that our base energy generation has been so heavily nerfed that the spec is unplayable outside of AR and you’ll be doing less damage than tanks if you ever fall out of AR which means we get extremely punished for having anything less than 100% uptime on a boss in raids.
Speaking of raids the spec also brings literally nothing to that either because we have a flat damage profile with zero burst which is really undesirable. Your guild is also going to have to cater to you with assigning mechanics which is just another grief because of the uptime required for the spec to even function at a base level.
On top of that we’re also one of if not the only hardcapped spec left in the game which has no way to hit more than 8 targets (Other than Blade Rush which is a joke and can’t be taken anyways on the tree) which kneecaps us even more when we’re going into a season where almost every dungeon in the pull is going to be extreme giga sized pulls well beyond 8 targets.
Devs will never uncap / softcap us because of BFA existing and our class dev designed the spec around the Amirdrassil tier set when the rework happened, nerfed the base spec because of that tier set, and obviously we never got compensated for losing it either. The spec basically needs a Ret level rework which wont happen.
Nobody plays the class so it gets no development time but no dev time means even less people playing it and the cycle just repeats eating itself in a loop.
The devs are simply retarded, there is no other discussion needed.
Someone out there gets paid real money to work on rogue, and they’re horrendously pathetically terrible at their job. A completely and profoundly uninspired jackass.
And whoever that persons manager is, the guy clearly obsessed with cringe-core ret paladin, is equally garbage at their job for having not identified the rogue dev as being garbage.
They deserve to be told. Anyone this bad at what they do anywhere else would have been gone ages ago.
I do not think it is a singular person but it is done through a group vote as to what changes take place for Rogues. Unfortunately Rogues are a mystery to the new devs so they do not know how to proceed with the class.
Camel = A horse designed by a committee.
On that note, anyone else just love all those unneccessarily drawn out taxi rides in M+ dungeons? 
being starved of energy is hella frickin poggers if i do say so myself 
Rogues aren’t 100% forgotten. They do get nerfs every now and then.
They have to at this point. They literally implemented BF in the Trickster tree for Sub and buffed it this season. Sub already had a softcapped AoE in Black Powder. Its only right now that Outlaw gets its own, even if it comes in the form of a dot or something to promote variety, if they arent gonna change BF cap.
These Devs suck.
The new devs in charge do not understand how Combat and Outlaw works so they are trying to use existing framework which does not exist. Pretty much everything about Outlaw since introduced in Legion does not exist.
Assassination has been the most consistent spec pre and post Legion changes. And with the unpruning it is the closest spec to how the other two specs were like pre Legion too. Adding a proper defensive for Assassination and a way to enter stealth without burning vanish would help Assassination the most.
Sub has been on a roller coaster ride because they took away a lot of its tools and gave it new tools in legion. But those tools since legion like Outlaw have been pruned away. The problem? The old tools of Sub were not fully given back (eg garrote).
The popularity of classic has given the new devs an idea of what appealed players to Rogues back in the day. MoP classic will just solidify why all three specs while shared common tools like shiv, poisons, garrote, rupture were also very different still.
Like Shadow Dance… a reminder you supported its removal.
Sub doesnt currently have a problem besides maybe Shadow Dance timings. Could use a lil bit more uptime but it plays well.
If it was balanced correctly, capped specs would be blasting at lower target counts - but its usually you just underperform or at best match at all target counts. It makes no sense. Another example is fully uncapped specs (no sqrt scaling) should have terrible ST as a balance - but then they’re unplayable in raid so they don’t do that.
Having a cap is just a disadvantage always, such a weird design choice.
Would MoP be worth trying out as a rogue? I really enjoy sass pvp right now.
Yes, 100%.
Buff Outlaw Rogue 2025
I think he was asking for something along the lines of an actual restealth, where you just want stealth damage. These are not the same, shadow dance is not a defensive cd.
Ah but that’s why they keep buffing precise cuts, y’see! To address that!
Blizz be like “hurr we so smart”
Nope. I been arguing with him for years. Having Shadow Dance meant we never had to use Vanish for dps and could always use it to stealth.
Precisely and Shadow Dance to Assassination would be over powered due to Garrote Silence.