Why are Ret offhealing capabilities gutted?

Classes Paladin
1

One of the highlights of playing ret (for me at least) is being able to decently(it was nerfed a bunch of times) offheal others when needed and passively depending on talents.
Yet they’re nerfing it even more?? They keep erasing this identity…

  • Seal of the Crusader healing reduced by 50%. - passive gutted
  • Lightforged Blessing now heals 1% of health (was 2%). - passive gutted
  • A Just Reward now has a more just reward, its healing increased by 140%. - Cleanse healing is so situational and may not even be needed sometimes.
  • Flash of Light healing increased by 35%. - FoL heals quite low now, 35% won’t make up for the other nerfs at all, it’s also only every 6 sec with the instant talent.
  • Word of Glory’s mana cost has been increased to 15% (was 10%). - why? It was already a significant drain and now it’s 50% worse?? So instead of 10 heals to drain it’s now 6-7… a 40-30% direct nerf to offhealing.
  • Healing Hands now only functions to increase Word of Glory’s healing on the Paladin themselves (was increased healing on allies). - why even bother at this point? :confused:

I was already considering not renewing my sub, so maybe this is just a sign.

But is anyone else bothered by these notes, or just me?

6 Likes
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I think it’s just a first draft shift in the overall off-healing meta. If you look at the Shaman notes:

Continuing the discussion from Undermine(d) Development Notes:

I would assume this is meant a bit for all hybrids, it just wasn’t noted for Paladins.

I’m willing to let them cook on this for a bit, but it does feel bad having these talents nerfed literally one patch after Blizzard said Paladin’s fantasy is meant to be in their off healing capabilities.

To me this feels like another one of those changes that effects the whole game, but hits Paladins in a weird unique way. (like Ret Aura, etc…)

  • Lay on Heads
  • WoG + Healing Hands
  • FoL + Light’s Celerity + Selfless Healer
  • Seal of the Crusader
  • Holy Ritual
  • Lightforged Blessing
  • Judgement of Light
  • Golden Path
  • Lightbearer

We have a lot of healing potential, and it more so feels like an issue of quantity > quality and that’s Paladins unique issue that should be addressed.

There needs to be a way to express less is more, imo.

  • Healing Hands vs Selfless Healer (Tuned as needed)
  • Seal of the Crusader merged into Lightforged Blessing
  • Golden Path vs Judgement of Light (Tuned as needed)
3

Agreed. Our offhealing is where we can show the community we matter too in times of extreme pain.

It’s now basically pretty much gone. Esp healing hands talent.

If offhealing from a paladin was the intended identity goal, i am not sure how these all translate to that. Being a good offhealer is what makes up part of the package of a good paladin and now there’s lesser room for such expression.

Not a fan.

6 Likes
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Well they just put minuses all over, except FoL which is still going to be weak.
The GCD is what matters most when offhealing, but we didn’t get bolstered there, we got nerfed.
We also got nerfed in our ability to sustain a lvl of healing, by increasing the mana cost of WoG by 50%, all while also nerfing our ability to heal others meaningfully by nerfing Healing Hands to the ground, as it no longer works on allies.

You say it’s a first draft, but there are no notes for Ret that says that they’re still in the middle of making changes for us, it’s just what Enha got, so i’m not confident in that presumption, sadly.

The only communication is nerfs, so i’m just speaking on what changes we got so far.
If Blizz clarifies their intentions it would be something, but i’m not holding my breath.

5

imma be real with you rayzen, offhealing isnt something we should want. its unhealthy and frankly spamming wog doesnt show the community ret is good, it just shows that run was scuffed to begin with if you need to active heal over dps. instead of ya know, using spot healing reactively.

you shouldnt use wog so many times where its mana cost is a issue. alot of the passiev healign is overhealing as well.

gutting both passive healing by 50% means we do less overhealing now. which is a alright.

2 Likes
6

Nah, it’s not just you.

For some strange reason, Blizzard tends to give us really good self-sustain and then takes it away from us. Anyone remember Fading Light? It was really good and then they gave us not the nerf-bat but the nerf-bazooka, to the point that it was actually useless.

They now seem to want to take the same path with Seal of the Crusader and Lightforged Blessing.

Damn shame. I was really feeling those talents.

Uh-huh. In the immortal words of my man Jesse: “Keep hope alive.”

7

Then what do you want? To be a Rogue? We already have that option standing there, in 3 flavors, or a warrior? It has 2 flavors.

It’s a part of what makes ret, ret, idk what you expect from ret, but healing is a part of the spec.

It also means you do 50% less healing when it matters.

Being helpful in emergencies like the healer dying last 30% of a boss fight in an M+ is a situation that shows ret can be useful in more ways than just DPSing.
We’re just gutting that possibility now?

What are we getting in return?

Well, besides this being a PVE rant, the self-healing in PVP is going to be atrocious with the 50% extra cost on WoG, more than it is now.

Hope alive is all well and dandy, but humans can’t hold their breath so long. :joy:

3 Likes
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For sure.

But I could see Blizzard trying to nerf passive healing across the board to attempt to reduce mob 1 shots in Mythic+ and some raid environments, which personally I think is healthier for the game overall.

Passive healing just being an overall meta issue that negates a lot of that passive danger, feels like it requires more bursty/one shot mechanics to exist that the average player tends to dislike.

Personally I’d be more concerned if they didn’t buff FoL at the same time. I think FoL is a better ability to show Paladin’s off healing fantasy because it comes at a much less cost of damage.

So again, I’m willing to see how this pans out.

1 Like
9

I like FoL, but its healing this expac has been abysmal and a 35% increase won’t cut it above the useful line.
I always use the Light’s Celerity talent too, i don’t like the passive WoG self-heal.

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i mean, they can double down on paladin utility instead of massive aoe offhealing that does nothing of value. spellwarding, blessings of might/kings/protection, ect ect

yes but it should nt smart healing, actually good healing not aoe offhealing that again only makes your healing details bar big

im going to be real with you, our offhealing never matters enough to turn the tides of a scuffed pull. what does is spot healing like a well placed wog.

ill be honesty with you again, if that happens in the last 30% of a boss then its prohably faster to wipe and reengage the boss. congrats you replaced the healer with worse healer and int the group with a lack of your damage.

im just saying we shouldnt miss passive offhealing cause it does nothing but overheal. its not useful when we “need it” we should however have a niche in spot healing and massive burst healing like in bfa with AOE wog.

theres alot of options blizzard can do to make ret keep its healing fantasy, we shouldnt beg for blizzard to keep the worst part of our fantasy when we had betetr fantasy in the past

11

The passive healing wasn’t even that good and it was nerfed.
The ACTIVE healing was appropriate for its cost and it was nerfed.

How long are you going to wait to ask them for better stuff?
Spellwarding will never be rets due to being able to use it in PVE to cheese mechanics.
Blessings that don’t exist, you’re hoping they’ll bring them back? When?
What do you want from protection exactly? because they’ll never make it AOE.

Like i said above, it wasn’t that good, but besides nerfing the overhealing, they’re nerfing the actual healing as well. So wtf do you even gain by this exactly?

You gain nothing, you’re just a frog in a pot and Blizz is rising the heat slowly while you stay there saying… it’s fine, i can take it, it doesn’t matter.

It’s not faster to wipe, can you even hear yourself?
30% while healer is dead, you’re doing less dps but the tank and other dps are doing their thing.
Half a dps being gone for 30% of the fight, isn’t better than wiping regrouping and starting from scratch, you’re losing another 5 minutes easily.

They’re nerfing every part of our healing besides FoL, so every part of our healing is “the worst?” If it’s “the worst” why is it getting nerfed?

3 Likes
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i mean your not supposed to spam your active healing either.

thats insane, you not providing the group proper dps for the last 30% is gonna make the boss run longer than wiping and regrouping. your also going to go oom from spamming wog when it was at 10% mana cost

its the worst cause it just sucks and does nothing in general. so ya having it nerfed sucks but again, it sucks from the geto go so it doesnt really matter. instead of trying to preserve things that suck, we should ask for better things

flash of lighbt being buffed is neat cause we can run that flash of light talent instead of wog cheat death

13

Yeah, you’re supposed to use them when needed.
But you’re telling me it’s fine if it’s 6-7 till dry but not 10? Why not 1 till dry? Why not make it 3?
Did you think… my WoG cost is too low and i can spam heal 10 times, Blizz should nerf it to 6?

That’s basic math, but more importantly it’s common sense… i’m not sure how you’re not getting it.

If you attribute a boss 900 million health, 33.(3)% of that is 300 million health.
If each dps does 1 mil on average + let’s say tank + heal does half that, it’s 3.5 mil dps for your party.
If heal dies let’s say he did 100k dps, if your dps is halved it’s 500k, so a total of 600k lost, your party dps is 2.9 mil.

Which do you think it’s faster? To die, get a min off your timer, come back another minute and restart from 100% hp with 3.5 mil dps? Or continue from 33% with 2.9 mil dps?

Because 100% with 3.5 mil dps = 257 seconds
And 33% meaning 300 mil with 2.9 mil dps = 102 seconds

Even without the timer penalty for deaths and running back, it’s still a significant loss or 155 seconds, so 2.5 minutes. So + the 2 minutes penalty and running back, you’re wasting 4.5 minutes… probably even more if you used BL on that boss, so gratz?

And now you’ll run OOM faster, making that possibility not possible anymore.
So thank you Blizzard is what you’re saying here?

Yes, that’s what i’d call a 35% buff to a low heal as well… neat!

Okay, i got your point, you don’t care, absolutely fine for yourself.
You can also keep waiting for buffs to other utility, they’ll be here before Christmas, surely. I didn’t specify what year though.

4 Likes
14

Honestly if they are going to try and reduce WoG spam just remove the mana and HP cost and just give it charges.

Paladins can’t spam it if they can only cast it twice per 40s

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Your taking this way to personally.

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Lmao after I read the wog changes I was expecting
"Healing hands no longer nerfrd in pvp combat)
“Wog no longer nerfed in pvp combat”

I guess Im too stupid to think blizzard would up wogs mana cost while also removing its pvp modifiers but no, its a straight nerf with nothing ti compensate.

FoL still retains its pvp modifiers why even bother? If im gonna have to cast then make them strong casted heals

Oh and this further pushes ret to never work in a double dps scenario. HHnot working on others then whats the point? Our offhealing was BAD and this just made it worse. Blizzard … other dps specs continue to outheal ret… like come on

5 Likes
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The only thing i can take personally from this is my own opinion on the changes.

You can hope and hope, but remember to have hope for the hope as well.

Exactly, HH has been completely gutted.

The more they lower the healing, the more it won’t be used… ret becoming more and more like a rogue or warrior.

Would be nice if someone made a list of the healing capabilities on all specs, ret is probably in the lower half now, especially among the hybrids.

1 Like
18

It’s annoying that they reworked our entire class tree to emphasize off-healing as our defining trait, made it weak to the point that most healing talents weren’t worth taking, and then deciding that they didn’t like anyone having meaningful off-heals and nerfing it further. The healing hands nerf is the one that hurts imo. Our passive healing talents were already kinda dook.

3 Likes
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Exactly, this is the one that matters the most, along with the cost rising for Wog by 50%…

Yes and now they made them even worse… Lightforged Blessing went from 5% (obviously too much) to 3%, to 2%, to 3% and now to 1%… is this a joke?

2 Likes
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I didn’t find the off-healing to be noticeable to begin with so I’m not “bothered”.
Rather perplexed…

To me this appear as an attempt to make this off-healing more active than passive, more purposeful rather than drip-healing people that are already at 100%.

They might be thinking we keep the Healing hands + Guided Prayer combo as personal survivability and take Selfless healer as utility.

Selfless healer is a 82% increase on FoL supposing both you and the target needs the heal.

Overall ending up with less HPS over a dungeon but more purposeful.

If that makes any senses.

To me off-healing as a DPS should be short lived and impactful.

Healing hands was that but with a holy power cost, which meant that you gimped yourself on damage.

Some other hybrids had “big cds” that converted damage to healing which has it’s advantages and short-comings.

I don’t know, I think the idea can work but they have to make it work.
I just don’t know what the purpose of WoG is through all that.

1 Like