Bolvar literally uses paladin skills now.
Go do the raid, then cope/seethe.
Danuser was an idiot who said if you die in the shadowlands you die permanently.
In the same expansion mobs tell you they’ll be back.
You make new bodies for tons of double and triple dead souls.
So yeah. Legion is the class identity expansion.
Shadowlands was the danuser makes stuff up and contradicts it expansion.
Tldr: you’re wrong, to the surprise of no one.
Not necessarily this expansion. But quests like the dwarven starting zone having us murder frightened troll kids(labeled whelps ingame no less) and than telling us we’re doing it for the Greater good. The old questing had a lot of questionable and outright terrible quests
You don’t get to decide that doesn’t make him a Death Knight.
So??? None of that has to do with the fact that Danuser doesn’t want Bolvar to be evil, and neither does the rest of Blizz.
Great. The game still portrays you as the champion or hero, no matter what you play.
It’s also telling that you can only name one really bad thing the Ebon Blade actually does in said expansion.
We definitely agree on that point. I brought up this expansion since clearly Blizzard is moving away from that type of writing. I think that’s why OP’s mad lol.
“If you look hard enough for hidden meaning, you will find it.”
One might draw a comparison but I don’t really think they did it on purpose.
At risk of sounding pedantic, I’d argue DKs fall much more into the anti-hero category. At the end of the pipeline they might be heroic, sure, but there’s a lot of skeletons in the closet. Heh.
If memory serves, during Legion his resolve was cracking under the effects of the Helm of Domination, hence why he was going a tad rabbid.
BOY DO I HAVE A GREAT HERO CLASS CAMPAIGN FOR YOU
Friendly reminder that Danuser was the same guy who said Chronicles was just the Titans PoV. I wouldn’t take anything that comes out of his mouth on a good light.
I’m yet to see a DK with paladin spells, if I’m being honest. Granted, NPCs often don’t fit neatly into a playable class, but usually they are… somewhat adjacent to one. Bolvar is visually coded as a DK, but his powers are very much of the light.
Sir Zellik from the old Naxxrammas Four Horseman fight was one of the rare death knights who could still use his paladin spells due to how strong his convinction was
He kept resisting the LK and constantly told us to run away or flee while we still could
Well that’s one, but my point still stands. the SL cinematic has Bolvar casting a giant Remorseless Winter, but that could very much be just rune magic on his hammer. He didn’t die and got raised from undeath, or fully corrupted like Arthas did. He got badly burned by dragon fire and then the Helm had his way with him, but he’s still very much not a DK.
Having said that, I’d like if he did. A rimefire type of DK, mixing draconic fire with frost. Fun times.
I mean It doesn’t really matter if they did it on purpose. You don’t really need to look that hard either. Blizzard has a bad habit of mishandling colonization. They did the same with the Drust and Amani.
I never disagreed, but anti-heroes are still meant to be on the side of good.
Death Knights also vary on the moral spectrum. Thassarian in Wrath outright stated he only wanted to kill evil people to sate his endless hunger.
Plus most of the game’s story is class-agnostic.
I mean why didn’t that carry over to Shadowlands.
First off, we already had Sir Zeliek. Second, I don’t think using the Light occasionally disqualifies being a DK.
Oh I fully agree with you on this one.
Ya, most DKs lean into that afaik. Channel the hunger towards bad guys, yada yada. And the game being that class-agnostic leads to several moments that had me looking at the screen and scratching my head. When Anduin invited me for some Ale I thought “Man, you do realise my digestive track doesn’t work at all, right? That stuff will be just befermenting in my intestines. We don’t want that.”
Because Sylvanas took the helmet off of him and broke it in half? Source of corruption broken, no more corruption flooding in.
It might not, but I don’t think there was enough shown to guarantee he’s an actual Death Knight. A Lich King? Sure, got the helm and everything, but a DK, don’t think so. Again, he wasn’t raised from undeath nor fully corrupted. His mog is killer, though. I’d pay cash money to have that one.
If the rest of blizzard didn’t want the lich king to be, at minimum, morally grey, then why was he depicted so in one of the biggest, most worked on, most loved expansions in the series?
Tldr: you didn’t think this through and picked the dumbest hill to die on. To the surprise or everyone.
You should play Horde side more often. I don’t have specific examples because I don’t care enough to record that kind of information, but I recall several times doing quests as a Horde character and getting shamed by the NPC’s because I did a quest.
Personally, I’d be all for this if we had actual agency. Because not doing the quest isn’t really agency. The game assumes you will do, or did for the skip mode, all of the quests and might even require it.
Consider the fact that we helped bring down Dalaran, that whole tuning the defenses quest was given to us by Xal, yet we also don’t have agency in that quest. If we want to advance the story, we need to do the quest otherwise we are stuck at that moment in time.
Functionally WoW isn’t an RPG it’s an MMO based Visual Novel that keeps trying to pretend that the players aren’t just observers for the Dev’s chosen heroes.
I like how *The Old Republic * does a lot of their quests ingame. With giving you a Light Side or Dark Side option. That game at least gives characters agency on how the story plays out.
Yep, I only stopped playing when it felt like I had lost a lot of that agency. Mostly because they made a bone headed change that locked in your choice no matter how dumb it turned out to be. I mostly played lightside, but I still chose darkside from time to time because it wasn’t the wrong choice for my character. At least not as it was carried out, which rarely matched up with the blurb.
My entire point was you can’t use Legion as a gotcha when Blizzard changes their mind constantly.
Who says Bolvar isn’t morally gray now?
Talia.
Check out the event.
WoW’s 20th Anniversary
Gossip
Time and tide wait for no one.Gossip How is your father?
He is still trying to understand what it means for there to be no Lich King. Other than that, brooding and apologetic, but better than before.
Literally proves nothing. That’s enough arguing with you right now.
Doness: wow only has the player be heroes.
Also doness: plsplsplspls ignore legion the class expansion.
Also, also doness: pls don’t ignore shadowlands
His point is, regardless of what we do ingame, the game still Treats you like you’re the good guy
Intention is mostly irrelvant, ideology can be translated from artist to art without the artist being self aware of what they’re doing. Its unsurprising that WoW being the product of American developers living in California reflects a settler colonial mindset.
this being what looks like the fulcrum of your argument, i agree. there are points where individual classes might do seedy things (remember when learning to summon a succubus required you to kill innocent people? pepperidge farm remembers), but those seedy things are never really addressed lastingly because even the ‘evil’ classes basically and fundamentally have the same ends as the ‘good’ classes. trying to steal tirion’s corpse has never had redress in the plot, and that’s in large part because it would just be difficult for the writers to do so lmao