That’s right! Thanks for the refresher. That was a super entertaining intro for the clever fox people.
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It was one of my favorites to do. Easily the cutest playable race by far. 
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I had no problem knowing what the forsaken were when I played one and it was clarified in Cataclysm.
The confusion came after BFA, when they pretty much killed off the whole culture the same way they did to the orcs. Until then they were crazy zombies with chemical weapon.
And yeah, I don’t have a magical fix, I can’t snap my fingers and fix everything because the damage was done over years and expansions. So of course I don’t have a total fix. But what I did offer is a good first step in starting to fix the current situation.
And bet your rear neutrality is bad for the Horde, cause it’s gonna be swallowed by the same thing that swallowed the Alliance cultures, human morality.
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Nah, I answered this somewhere else. You lean into that tension and the new grudges it forms. You have a strong core of leadership playing as a moderating force against the extreme fringes of their faction (Thrall vs. Grom, Anduin vs. Genn). That provides a space that used to exist, where the heroic sorts are free to band together doing heroic things, while the fringe (edgelords) get their slice of the pie in the more PvP oriented stuff.
More of that ^ and less of Tyrande choosing renewal after Elune yanks her leash for no justifiable reason.
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The problem with neutrality is it allows them to avoid the question of what to do with the horde, Why bother solving the problems you made when you can just pretend you didn’t wet the proverbial sheets by sleeping in another bed
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You’re joking, right? Remember that time in Wrath of the Lich King where the titan’s failsafes were going to scorch all living life off the surface of Azeroth and start from scratch just because the Old Gods were starting to shake loose from their prisons?
Yeah, Titans have never fully been our friends. The fact that the dude they left in charge is Odyn should’ve been hint enough in Legion.
The Last Titan will finally bring a plotline started in Wrath(with hints going back to Vanilla) full circle.
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Just starting to shake loose from their prisons?
Yogg-saron was practically free from his. C’thun was for a long time. Since the end of the Troll Aqir war. Yogg-saron had corrupted most if not all of the planetary systems found in Ulduar, the most important being the Forge of Wills and had corrupted or killed most of the keepers of Ulduar.
Not to mention other protectors being compromised. Such as the Aspects. Neltharion had become Deathwing. Malygos was just killed. The Bronze Dragonflight were basically in a civil war. The Emerald Dream had signs of void corruption inside (Emerald Nightmare).
It was Odyn and Highkeeper Ra. Just Odyn with his massive ego felt he outranked Ra due to his position as Prime Designate. Even though Ra was the Highkeeper.
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That doesn’t justify a global omnicide, lmao. Algalon’s monologue at the end of his fight spells this out explicitly.
And Ra being equal to Odyn or not is a moot point considering Ra let Odyn run things how he wanted up North while he was doing stuff in the south.
So the Titans shouldn’t have had a failsafe in case something went wrong on the scale that it did? What if Azeroth didn’t have the PC’s to challenge Algalon or even defeat Yogg-saron and C’thun by this point? Should the void just win in their plans in that case?
Not to mention that it was Yogg-saron that knew of Algalon and sought to abuse that very failsafe by making Loken change himself to the Prime Designate. And later die to our hands. Thus bringing Algalon down.
Yes, the titans shouldn’t have a planet destroying failsafe in place especially considering it was almost activated by accident due to the Old God’s meddling in the first place. This is like somebody having a nuke buried under a city while it being invaded. “What should we just let the enemies win?” If the alternative is mass innocent death, then yes.
Also, evidence points towards the Old Gods not even wanting the Void Lords to win. Lines that N’zoth says in BFA and the fact that they seemingly turned on, and imprisoned their harbinger all point to them simply wanting to rule over their planetary fiefdom. So the void wouldn’t have even won either way.
I wouldn’t call Brann pressing random buttons, “due to Old Gods meddling”. If you are referring to Yogg-saron’s plan B, then it wasn’t an accident. Yogg knew what he was doing when he convinced Loken to fill in the vacant position after Odyn left it because he hated dragons. The alternative was to have no failsafe in case the Old Gods did escape and the planet would’ve fallen to the void.
You mean the same N’zoth that was literally trying to corrupt Azeroth in his very encounter in BFA? What do you think the ‘convergence’ phase was all about? N’zoth just wanted to see the interior of the Chamber of the Heart because he likes Titan architecture?
“As players weaken N’zoth, he casts Convergence, drawing the Chamber of the Heart and Ny’alotha into dimensional alignment to fulfill his ultimate purpose” - N’zoth the Corrupter entry in the adventure guide.
He was trying to corrupt Azeroth into his domain, but he wasn’t trying to bring about what the Void Lords wanted. There’s a LOT of things implying this. He calls himself Azeroth’s true protector at one point and after he’s dead, Alleria says that the whispers of the void have gotten louder not quieter, implying that N’zoth and the other Old Gods were blocking out whispers from the wider, cosmic void from reaching Azeroth. Like it or not, the evidence points towards the Old Gods defying their Void Lord masters.
And again, Algalon’s monologue at the end of his fight make it very clear what theme we’re supposed to take away from Ulduar. The titans are wrong to deny mortals the chance to fight for their own survival. Culling them due to planetary corruption is evil.
This is in relation to Zovaal. Remember, the void sees Death as the enemy of all things. Mainly Zovaal who wanted to destroy Azeroth in his gambit to redesign the whole cosmos to his will.
Not really. Could be that the Void Lords are furious that the last Old God on Azeroth is now dead and they are letting it known. And this isn’t the first time we have seen someone get angry, maddening whispers after a plan of the voids was foiled. Farad says something similar after Deathwing was killed.
And what if the mortals failed. Should Azeroth fall victim to the void?
For the sake of argument, does it really matter? The Void and the Titans are both trying to dominate the cosmos, neither one care what happens to the mortal races, they both just want their preferred outcome to happen. The Void Lords want to consume everything, and the Titans are fully willing to dispassionately cull sentient life to ensure that doesn’t happen.
The point that’s flown over your head despite the game spelling it out to you is that neither of these viewpoints are acceptable at all. If the living races of Azeroth are already dead, then who cares if the void wins? The series would already be over by that point anyways. The fact is, the titans are willing to kill the main protagonistic collective of the series, making them at the very least morally grey.
How you don’t understand that is beyond me.
In hindsight sure. But at the time how would they have known that 10-25 murder hobos would be successful in killing Yogg-saron? Not to mention that there was another possible outcome for Algalons analysis. That being the death of the Prime Designate was an accident and there are no signs of significant system corruption to core planetary systems. Also they probably did not expect the position of Prime Designate to change at some point, nor would the change come from the influence of Yogg-saron. Ultimately leading to the new Prime Designates death. Drawing the eye of Algalon.
If Algalons only option was “nuke the planet” if the Prime Designate died then I would agree with you. But it wasn’t. And I feel you are ignoring that fact.
The argument is weird as if we should care for the titans plans over anything, as if it has to be one or the other
No. The Algalon Protocol was triggered by Loken’s death. The fact that the fail-safe was not used immediately upon the Titans’ arrival on Azeroth, but was explicitly used as a last resort, argues against malicious intent. The Titans believe that a Void Titan means the end of the universe. They prefer to preserve life. This is their emergency switch if their titanforged fail. There’s nothing malicious about it. Alaglon could also be persuaded. This must be taken into account. He’s no zealot.
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Also if the titans and their servants wanted us dead, Alaglon would’ve been the one to begin the conflict with us. Instead it was us who challenged him. Blizzard could’ve coded it that as soon as he arrives (i.e. when we enter the boss room) he is engaged in combat. They have done that before and after (Gluth in Naxx and later Mythrax in Uldir).
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Defeated
Algalon returns to the center of the room as Brann runs back in. Brann comes up to Algalon, who kneels.
Algalon the Observer yells: I have seen worlds bathed in the [Makers] flames, their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart devoid of emotion… of empathy. I. Have. Felt. Nothing. A million-million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?
Algalon the Observer yells: Perhaps it is your imperfections… that which grants you free will… that allows you to persevere against all cosmically calculated odds. You prevail where the Titan’s own perfect creations have failed.
Algalon the Observer yells: I’ve rearranged the [reply code] - your planet will be spared. I cannot be certain of my own calculations anymore.
Algalon the Observer yells: I lack the strength to transmit the signal. You must… hurry… find a place of power… close to the skies.
Brann Bronzebeard yells: I know [just the place] Will you be all right?
Algalon the Observer yells: Do not worry about my fate, Bronzen. If the signal is not transmitted in time, re-origination will proceed regardless. Save… your world…
They have purged countless worlds that weren’t the Keystone to destroying the entire universe. Algalon has done so countless times. Without even feeling a thing. Only after he’s beaten to near death does he consider for a moment that this might’ve been the wrong thing to do. You two are STILL willingly ignoring the literal text of the story. That being that the Titan’s cull systems worth of sentient life without caring.
He is quite literally a zealot up until he’s nearly killed. Like what? Just because he doesn’t immediately kill everything on Azeroth doesn’t mean he’s not a zealot. Only a zealot would kill as many people as he has without feeling anything. A million-million lives. Do you know how many that is? He’s killed more people than anybody in the lore other than maybe the Legion.
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Okay but what does that have to do with Highkeeper Ra?
Like why quote me saying that?