Why are casuals paying for the 1% forced ‘Raid or die’ in shadowlands?

[Boondock-myzrael]

These arguments for rigid covenants are weird

“Why are you trying to confine us with choices?”

[Misery-darrowmere (Misery)]

@Icyheart-khaz-modan

I don’t think the gap has necessarily been as large as people are saying it was throughout history, apart from maybe Vanilla where you could literally one-shot players if you were in full Naxx gear. The problem also, isn’t the gap itself(as it does have to exist), it’s how they’ve removed the differences between PvP gear and PvE gear. Understandably they want to make it possible for a mainly PvE player to step into PvP just as easily as a PvP player can step into PvE(skill not withstanding). There has to be a power difference between the two that is made up for via other means. Like, if the new SL PvP trinket set bonus was spread along each PvP piece. I.E. With full PvP gear you’ld get a bonus 30% effectiveness of vers in BG’s, arenas, and WM; dropping by 2% or 3% each piece you are missing.

Just for gear comparisons:
Honor: 191
Normal/Conquest/M15: 200
Heroic: 213
Mythic/M15(Vault): 226(233 with CE)
Which puts honor gear at a 30% deficit between base gear and it’s fully leveled counterpart and a 20% between fully leveled honor gear and high end mythic.

On another note, it’s sounding like we’re comparing high end mythic to starting blues. Of course there’s going to be a gap, especially as the expansion progresses. It’s just something we’re all going to have to deal with.

My biggest issue is the lack of parity between M+ now and Raiding, as well as Blizzard’s massive overestimation of how many people can hit 2400 arena rating or whatever it is thats equivalent to Raiding.

Raiding is way easier than Arena. I have seen literal keyboard turners in mythic raid groups, frequently, that do in fact clear content.

Raiding has received a huge ilvl handicap forever. It wasnt a problem when we had real PVP vendors and PVP stats, but now it is a problem.

[Ràlph-barthilas]

But locked covenants and conduits are a great thing, not my fault they are hurting the one good thing they are doing by pushing for raid or die

[Aedreth-area-52]

But he wants it! Life is so unfair when you have to put in effort for reward!

Don’t worry: there will be more forum threads created as OP thinks he’s going to convince Blizzard to give us another terrible participation trophy expansion like BfA.

Even a dog will stop chewing a bone when it’s down to the marrow but not OP: he just keeps going and going and going …

[Shiyo-sargeras]

More proof Shadowlands is going to be raid or die:

Bad Change to PvP Gear and Honor Vendor in Shadowlands - How It Works

[Timbaeslice-frostmourne]

Sounds like you should be advocating for changes to the PvP gearing system instead of complaining about how the game is “raid or die” lmao

[Suroh-benediction]

I like turtles.

[Synsha-sargeras]

That’s sorta funny you’d link that video… because he makes the case that M+ is still going to be a significant way to gear right in that video.

Guess it wasn’t so “raid or die” …

If you want PvP gearing fixed… it’s very… very simple. Put a PvP stat back in. Boom. PvP gear is better than PvE gear in PvP situations. Which is exactly how it should be.

So long as gear is this transferable, whichever content is the fastest to gear in will be the “required” content.

This means in shadowlands (as it was in BfA and Legion), M+ will be the de facto gearing method at the start of the gearing process, and raiding will take over at the end of the gearing process. And PvPers are getting screwed over again because reasons…

[Timbaeslice-frostmourne]

@Synsha-sargeras

If you want PvP gearing fixed… it’s very… very simple. Put a PvP stat back in. Boom. PvP gear is better than PvE gear in PvP situations. Which is exactly how it should be.

No it’s much easier to blame mythic raiders instead of identify an incredibly easy fix.

Bloody 1% !

[Saecred-bleeding-hollow]

If anyone is interested.

Server Population & Player Count - MMO Populations

This will show you the populations of MMO games. At the top, we have WoW retail at number 1 and WoW classic at number 4. If you scroll down, you will find SWTOR at rank 16. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say WoW has a superior game and the majority of that is the endgame content. It is successful. Why on earth should Blizzard change something that is working and ranks them as number 1, to something that is done by a rank 16 game. The majority of the people like endgame content. If you don’t want to do the content then this game isn’t for you. It’s not a tryhard, it’s called playing the game.

[Megustab-area-52]

They could change it so that pvp gives a lot of versatility and either remove or lower the timegate with the covenants. But… we know that’s not gonna happen.

If all gear is the same, then the players will choose the better and fastest way to obtain it. I’m baffled Blizzard devs hasn’t realised this already.

[Darkbum-skywall (Darkbum)]

@Nâtalie-moon-guard

Now if you argued on the basis of, focus less on the endgame and more along the lines of things like. “Hey why don’t we implement ACTUAL PLAYER HOUSING” That would be a cool thing to strive for both as a solo and group thing.

Someone could also argue that this is not The Sims and we already have a garrison we can sit alone in and admire the view. Want player housing? Get up out of your chair and look around, unless you are playing this at Best Buy then you already have player housing.

Regarding Solo vs multiplayer- Why don’t we have the option of doing raids/dungeons with BOTS? Just make them realistic. Every so often a BOT might go AFK and not tell anyone, call everyone a noob and leave the party, or cast an AOE that pulls every add within 3 miles. Then we can all play solo.

[Mysfyre-norgannon (Mysfyre)]

@Darkbum-skywall

Why don’t we have the option of doing raids/dungeons with BOTS? Just make them realistic.

I have 20g and a cookie that says within 30 minutes of it going live there would be a thread complaining the bots ninja’d the loot and kicked them from the party.

[Punkeek-bleeding-hollow]

Smells like ralph in here.

[Aedreth-area-52]

It’s a strange coincidence that “ralphing” is a term my friends and I used growing up meaning “to vomit.”

Pretty much what these threads make me feel like doing …

[Deulon-area-52 (Deulon)]

I just went to the restroom and took a Ralph.

[anon94927671]

Solo content: definitely valid in today’s MMO. I think anyone will do the group stuff once in a while but if you get tired of that and want to just chill out with solo stuff: WoW’s solo stuff has been quite baaaaaad.

We’ll see how far Torghast can carry us in SL I guess! TORGHAST, HO!

[Shiyo-sargeras]

Renown gear being nerfed in Slands now. Game is officially full raid or die.