You beat me to editing, realized I said WoD instead of MoP.
Clearly though up until cata, alliance had a benedit.
In MoP racials got nerfed again until WoD got crazy.
Now mind you, let us say all the top raid guilds went.
If 5% of each pop raids, then you should still see a healthy amount of players playing.
Or at the very least, you should have a bigger population capable of raiding.
So then it becomes a matter of “why is the rest of the alliance not doing end game content?”.
On my Horde characters i see plenty of keys and raids.
On the alliance, I see significantly less participation as a whole. So why isnt anyone else stepping up?
Particularly mythic where alliance hold the advantage?
no people always complained about the racials, mop was the last drop, it didnt need to make horde even better it just need to ignore the problem again which it did, also at best should have said the racials were balance since we never had massive faction change going horde to alliance because before WoD and even then it was only pvp
So no, the alliance was getting ignored for so long that players left
can you read?
thats why, after those guilds left saying it was for the better racials that the alliance high end PVP/PVE died
Except, as I stated, if you could read instead of rage, you have an area where alliance has clearly superior racials in M+, to the point that it is a severe advantage to possess.so if raiding does not work, you shoild see some transferring for M+, and yer we do not see it.
You see participation down as a whole, even though mythic is more accessible.
I would argue it is a matter of participation. Alliance have a view of being casual, and not being the type to do content that is considered end game.
Given this is the propaganda 21st century where companies and politicans only tell the truth if it suits their agenda and even then it’s usually just shades of the truth. The only thing one can discern is results. Currently 80+% of serious raiders and nearly as many PvP’ers main horde. Is that good for game balance? No. Is that good for the health of the player population? No. Is it good for profit margins? Nope. Is it blizzard incompetence or is it their agenda? In truth, it doesn’t matter. Why do they keep trying to drive alliance players to the horde?. Based on the past decade their decisions keep driving more and more players to horde… I can’t believe they are -that- incompetant and it’s intentional. Speculating. Maybe it’s rogue devs giving business people bad advice for their own seflish interests. Maybe the staff is sick of working on alliance and secretly wants to sunset wow retail or make this a horde only game. I don’t know. It’s pretty clear they want they overwhelming competitive crowd in both pve and pvp to go horde. Now with cute Vulepra and their farming passives it seems those in charge in some matter want to diminish the casual alliance farming crowd as well to get hem to switch factions. The game is no longer horde vs. alliance. It’s hordecraft and everything revolves around entertaining horde players. Blizzard gives incentives to alliance to do BG’s and warmode so horde can pown them for horde players entertainment. A suckers game since Alliance doesn’t win and doesn’t get the extra rewards.
My agenda as a player or if I was in charge of wow would be balanced factions and believe you me, that would happen. Horde players get bored of EZ mode and play other games because of a lack of competition with Alliance players who lose all the time. If you lose all the time, no matter what game you play, you are going to quit. No one wants to lose 80% of the time or more. No amount of trolling or taunting will encourage people to play in fact, players these days see it as toxic drama and it discourages them from doing any sort of competitive pvp/pve at all and drives players away from the game. Players these days are by far and large too ‘educated’ and cynical and rightfully so. The old methods of taunting or insulting someones pride just don’t work anymore. They are like screw this, I know what you are doing. NOPE NOPE NOPE. So done with WoW competitive gaming.
M+ is nowhere as big as raiding and pvp ? and NE is only really useful for the tank to drop necrotic stacks, anything else you would use a NE you can use a rogue ( rogues are present in every top time ) and after all that the horde would still has the better dps and CC racials with aoe stun and purges
and if you pay attention to what I said about the domino effect you would realize people wont come back unless its really OP because, because of the domino effect most high end players went horde and now its way easier to do high end content on the horde and because of that more players go horde…
Citation?
PvP and Raiding have always been single digit numbers. M+ has significantly more ease of access by comparison.
Ne shadowmeld allows you to manipulate mobs severely and with greater flexibility to go on top of what rogues can do. This is why at the high end, alliance can perform 20+ keys with ease, where as Horde struggle, because of the fact that mechanic manipulation provides much more in the way of completing the key than racials.
I would agree if it wasn’t for the fact that the population of alliance and horde at 120 is 47 to 53.
This means the pool accessible by both factions is pretty close. So how do you get those players, the 47%, to compete more often?
OP racials is nice, but temporary, and a long term soluton would be infinitely better because otherwise, we’re just swinging them back and forth.
So you’re saying that in wow, a game where the faction population It’s almost 50/50, the fact that Horde has better high end It’s because Alliance players are generally casuals? Because of a coincidence? Do you truly believe that there’s no variables of WHY?
Raiding has been in the game since…forever? M+ became something truly relevant in BfA…and the majority of BiS items for every single class drops from, you guessed, raiding. Heck, you can’t even get azerite pieces from m+ (only once per 5 weeks? Unless you’re lucky)
the whole game is around raiding and PVP at least for now, maybe in the future we will see whole fandom for M+ runs and it will be the only focus of multiple important guilds, for now its not
SM is use to drop necrotic and do some skips without having to use Brez, that’s it, you can accomplish the same thing with a rogue, why do you think horde struggle? there is quite some time but last time I checked horde is just fine in the rank for M+, where are you getting your data?
doesn’t matter if the pools are close, horde absorbed the hardcore ally players and after years of people reinforcing the “if you wanna do high end content you have to go horde” the damage is already done.
They try to bring people back to ally using the 100 first rank but it irrelevant since the community counts the overall order, doesn’t matter if you are the 1st alliance guild to kill if 50 horde guilds have done it already, it actually highlight even more the problem
People wont go to the faction with dead high end players and “bad racials” no matter what, you can put Ogres on the alliance that it wont bring back people who want to push content
even if you turn off every racial in the game why would people go to the faction where there is no high end players to do content with?
only OP racials would bring people back IMO
For me the expansion felt like a Horde versus the Horde with Alliance tagging along just because they had to add them. Like with multiple cinematics promoting the Horde , actual choices in their story and unique mounts instead of recolored horses , it just made the Alliance seem like a side note. All the Alliance seemed to do was run around with no clear objective or purpose.
IMO, I think it is because even if the Horde is losing (like they did in BFA), most of the Alliance stuff is off screen type stuff while the story remains mostly Horde centric.
Uhhh…yes you can. You can indeed get M+ from as a regular drop at the end of the dungeon.
Furthermore, depending on the class your BIS item is actually bought from the vendor and they are generally dungeon gear. Let alone that while raiding does provide BIS trinkets/weaponry, the participation rate is single digit.
M+ requires 5 people, and varying levels of difficulty. Alliance hold a huge advantage here.
Thing is, they’re not participating. So perhaps the perception of alliance being casual still reigns, and if so, how does one change it?>
LOL. Are you some Blizzard PR specialist, troll, or just delusional because alliance certainly isn’t favored. If they were they’d be have a small majority in raid guilds, pvp guilds, and racials among talented players like they used to. A small majority some 54/ 46 at most like in the past. Instead of some near or worse then 80/20 SS that is what retail is now. Besides the blood elves which completely ruin my immersion I’m not going to join a faction that powns all in EZ mode and no serious gamer would. Over the long term we like competition, and even casuals do. 60/40 is about the worst most people will tolerate.
So can you please tell me, in your perspective, why’s the reason of Alliance being the casual players faction?
quote=“Aguni-illidan, post:622, topic:331100”]
Uhhh…yes you can. You can indeed get M+ from as a regular drop at the end of the dungeon.
[/quote]
Nope, you can’t. Instead of droping azerite pieces you instead get residuum to buy in the vendor, 47k for a random piece or 275k for a specific one.
Huh? Yet again, you say something but don’t say why…
I am unhappy because I refuse to play only one toon and one spec. And the drag of grinding rep for 8 alts to raid only to suddenly realize that I need various essences from doing M+7, PVP Mythic Island expeditions, Operation Mechagon, Epic BG, farming resources, leveling mats,…and meanwhile Blizz keeps releasing the next expansion - and the endless waiting in raids – and the crummy kids with the school yard bullying – and …oh nevermind. There’s either too much to do or not enough to do. There should be an achievement for having alts. I have grinded artifact power to level 65 for 8 toons. I have gotten exalted Waveblade rep on 8 toons. NOW I get to do it again on Rustbolt Resistance. Oh wait I need to get Blood of the Enemy for this, and Conflict essence for that, and bla bla bla…oh and don’t forget to reforge your azerite for this, and for that, and for bg, dungeon, and raid it’s all slightly different, use these 3 for this, these 3 for that, a these 3 for this other thing and for all 3 or 4 different specs it’s all different…and AAAAUUUGGGGH. And to optimize u should download and learn to use pawn and sim, and to get into raids u need to download and update every day raider io, and to chart dps u need details or skada, and deadly boss mods or big wigs, or h.h.t.d. for pvp, and dont forget this talent goes with this move and that talent goes with that move…and why is that quest not where it is? o look it up on wowhead its a special run around to get there. And what does this object do? look it up on wowhead again…an get dischord! and make sure your privacy settings are secure on it and battlenet and there are no malware or viruses on the addons… I joined a m+ dungeon where this kid was saying to someone else in the run “oh i am so sorry i cannot pay you to run me thru this dungeon because I can’t transfer my gold to your realm” …I asked him why he was paying gold for it…whats the point of paying for it??
Because we are about 25% of the playerbase, and even though he’s long gone, Metzen’s ricockulous horde bias still somehow influences all. Also, you yourself are a former alliance race, as are the forsaken.
Somehow it’s all about you, all the time.
Edit: we are discussing primarily today a former alliance character’s arc, who somehow became warchief of the horde. Can you see and acknowledge this?
It is literally, totally inconceivable that some (not to mention multiple) horde characters, could end up in charge of Horde nations. Yet, the Forsaken could not exist without not one now, but two, alliance characters, becoming… you.
Not to mention whole races.
The horde is a joke faction that only survives (literally) on Alliance castoffs.
My own theory?
I believe it is a combination of both player and developer sided social issues. The alliance has the notion that the Horde players are catered to, and so they are less inclined as a result to be competitive. After all, how can you compete if another side is favored?
Secondly, the devs do place more interest in the Horde in general. So it is this, in combination with views of favoritism that results in them simply not wishing to try and compete. They then join the other side, because if everyone else is doing it, and the hardcore side is horde, then that is where I need to belong too.
Unless they changed something recently, you can get azerite pieces straight from the dungeons with a chance to forge up to 445.
If you mean the M+ chest? No. As far as I known you can’t get azerite pieces, but you wouldn’t want to anyway since the residuum gives you a guaranteed 445.
In terms of why the alliance has an advantage?
Shadowmeld, and generall better racials over all for both tanking and damage.
Shadowmeld is insanely good because of how it allows you to manipulate mobs and perform incredible skips.
It says you are 47% of the base.
You mean calia?
Calia isn’t alliance. She works with them, but in terms of lore, I do believe she went and did her own thing. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
As someone who has played Alliance since Warcraft 1, I see it this way.
The Horde betrays all it’s allies within a few scant years. Where are the Ogres now? Where are the Forest Trolls now?
Yet when these races are thrown away like garbage by the horde, they do not join the Alliance.
Meanwhile, 2/5 of the Horde are former Alliance races. You have NEVER had a leader of the Undead who is NOT a former Alliance character.
Try to imagine what that feels like. To declare your allegiance to a faction, only to have important NPCs and whole races continuously defect to the other faction.
You can’t.
You’re Blizzard’s pampered pets, and the majority.