...
Right on, man! Your logic makes perfect sense.
Last year, people were complaining in my town because many tires were getting ruined from all the potholes. Instead of suggesting that the city fix the potholes, we should have just told everyone to stop driving cars!
LOL what an absurd comparison that is....
As Juga points out not everyone has to do bgs while leveling. Hell it's not even the most efficient way to level up... really the only reason one does que up low level is they want to.
Comparing that to driving... you know something everyone who doesn't work from home has to do every day... is just crazy out of touch.
Right? Can you imagine the people who don't work in the same town? Plus, potholes ruin tires which cost money to repair. Does leveling through BGs cost real money? Nope.
Low level bgs have always been crazy imbalanced, no matter if twinks are in separate ques, no matter if gear even matters - even in Legion with its stat templates there was insane imbalance low lvl, surv hunter anyone? Remember back in MoP or was it Cata, when a prot warrior could one shot a clothie with shield slam? Didn't need to be a twink to do that.
Thing is, we have these problems, then you give them bis gear, gems, enchants, unbalanced weapon procs, and trinkets. It's like throwing gasoline on a fire.
Comparing that to driving.
Oh good lord, maybe that comparison went over your head. It definitely triggered a strawman from you.
Comparing that to driving.
Oh good lord, maybe that comparison went over your head. It definitely triggered a strawman from you.
No that comparison was just bad.
1 Like
Comparing that to driving.
Oh good lord, maybe that comparison went over your head. It definitely triggered a strawman from you.
"Last year, people were complaining in my town because many tires were getting ruined from all the potholes. Instead of suggesting that the city fix the potholes, we should have just told everyone to stop driving cars!"
That's a very simple and direct analogy there mate... not quite sure what you think I misunderstood. But for the sake of argument let's assume you're right... what exactly "went over my head"?
10/31/2018 10:14 AMPosted by
Jugajr
No that comparison was just bad.
No it wasn't. :)
Most RL comparisons made to video games are bad, just saying.
1 Like
10/31/2018 07:47 AMPosted by
Grombo
If you see a pattern of gross imbalance that isn't addressed, you're going to think the game is kinda !@#$.
And my entire point is that the player who sees that imbalance and gives up on PvP entirely would have given up on it anyway when they come up against some other seemingly impassible obstacle down the road. You have to have the right mentality to enjoy PvP in this game, Bajheera talked about it a while back on stream, he called it the "killer instinct". When you lose to another player, which will happen regardless of your skill/gear level, there are two distinct ways to respond. Either feel bad and blame the loss on their gear was OP, their class was OP, your class is UP, they're a twink, etc... or look at them and think "i want to get that skilled/geared so I can come back and beat them" and then look at your talents/gear/gameplay and improve it. If you're a player who falls in the first camp you will never last long in PvP no matter what kind of systems Blizz puts in place, and if you are the type to be motivated by a loss then twinking wouldn't dissuade you anyway.
PvP isn't for everyone, and that's totally fine. People find different aspects of the game fun, and at the end of the day this is a game, fun is the entire point. For some taking a low lvl toon and putting them in BiS for that bracket is what they find fun, let them enjoy the game in their own way. In the end it's just low level bgs, they affect a small percentage of the population and have no effect on end game content.
Yep I agree with all of this. Let me tell how my first every bg went back in wrath at level 30 something. I zone in after waiting like 30minutes in que. The room is empty then an alliance ret comes up the tunnel, I start attacking him the same way I attack mobs out when I was questing, I start wanding him and sent my voidwalker after him, he just comes up to me and 1 shots me, I was like what happened?! Now I joined the rest of my team in the gy where they were getting camped, I manage to escape( yes even when I was a noob I could still slip away from gy camps) I run into the ret several more times and he 1 shotted me every time. So after the bg I looked up what made him so powerful and that was the beginning of the the player I am today.
I did research, looked up my bis stats and gear, where and how to get them, best chants( I picked up enchanting just to save gold on enchants) looked up what was the best rotation for max damage, I learned so much about my toon cuz of that 1 twink ret that was farming me. It never discouraged me from pvping, it just made me want to get better at it and come in more prepared.
That's a very simple and direct analogy there mate... not quite sure what you think I misunderstood. But for the sake of argument let's assume you're right... what exactly "went over my head"?
Oh, so it didn't, you were just deflecting. Ok, that does make sense. My bad, bro.
10/31/2018 10:18 AMPosted by
Jugajr
Most RL comparisons made to video games are bad, just saying.
... something about opinions and having one too and something stinking.
That's a very simple and direct analogy there mate... not quite sure what you think I misunderstood. But for the sake of argument let's assume you're right... what exactly "went over my head"?
Oh, so it didn't, you were just deflecting. Ok, that does make sense. My bad, bro.
10/31/2018 10:18 AMPosted by
Jugajr
Most RL comparisons made to video games are bad, just saying.
... something about opinions and having one too and something stinking.
Do you want to talk about this twink you ran into that affected your argument skills? It's okay if you die in a video game you know
lets be real..even if twinks were banished or w/e and blizz loses a sizeable chunk (not a whole lot, but a good chunk who only enjoy this game for twinking and their communities that they've been apart of for over a decade..) people would just !@#$% about regular class tuning then. I guess y'all don't remember in Cataclysm where we ended up getting a main ability when we chose our specializations..like Enh getting Lava Lash at 10 or 15 when they chose enhance...sub rogues. Sub rogues DOMINATED that bracket where even someone in no looms could shadow step ambush and do 90% of someones hp...in mop or wod it was feral druids that were stupidly broken and rets...in legion it was survival hunters. Even hpals during the MOP prepatch in cataclysm where they were stupidly over tuned and holy shock was one shotting
So honestly, then people would just complain "But muh low lvl bg balance" and then they have no excuse except to come to terms that they won't enjoy low lvl pvp anyway.
10/31/2018 10:28 AMPosted by
Shruika
lets be real..even if twinks were banished or w/e and blizz loses a sizeable chunk (not a whole lot, but a good chunk who only enjoy this game for twinking and their communities that they've been apart of for over a decade..) people would just !@#$% about regular class tuning then. I guess y'all don't remember in Cataclysm where we ended up getting a main ability when we chose our specializations..like Enh getting Lava Lash at 10 or 15 when they chose enhance...sub rogues. Sub rogues DOMINATED that bracket where even someone in no looms could shadow step ambush and do 90% of someones hp...in mop or wod it was feral druids that were stupidly broken and rets...in legion it was survival hunters. Even hpals during the MOP prepatch in cataclysm where they were stupidly over tuned and holy shock was one shotting
So honestly, then people would just complain "But muh low lvl bg balance" and then they have no excuse except to come to terms that they won't enjoy low lvl pvp anyway.
Agreed. I try to stay out of twink threads since I don't really do low level BGs but I have seen complaints all along with twinks not even being in the brackets until now.
10/31/2018 10:12 AMPosted by
Grombo
Low level bgs have always been crazy imbalanced, no matter if twinks are in separate ques, no matter if gear even matters - even in Legion with its stat templates there was insane imbalance low lvl, surv hunter anyone? Remember back in MoP or was it Cata, when a prot warrior could one shot a clothie with shield slam? Didn't need to be a twink to do that.
Thing is, we have these problems, then you give them bis gear, gems, enchants, unbalanced weapon procs, and trinkets. It's like throwing gasoline on a fire.
Sure, I am not saying twinking makes things more balanced... of course not. Clearly it makes them more one-sided. I am simply saying that that low level imbalance doesn't cause issues with the game as a whole, as you assert in your initial comment that I first responded to:
"It''s not like twinking is healthy for the game either, anyone leveling and trying out pvp isn't even going to be able to learn and get better. They get just globaled and have no opportunity to even improve or see what they're doing wrong."
10/31/2018 10:31 AMPosted by
Jugajr
Agreed. I try to stay out of twink threads since I don't really do low level BGs but I have seen complaints all along with twinks not even being in the brackets until now.
Sometime in wrath i think they enabled the xp off feature and then put people who had xp off into their own seperate ques and then that changed only recently just this expansion or maybe at the end of legion so it used to be the way it is now wrath and before
That's a very simple and direct analogy there mate... not quite sure what you think I misunderstood. But for the sake of argument let's assume you're right... what exactly "went over my head"?
Oh, so it didn't, you were just deflecting. Ok, that does make sense. My bad, bro.
10/31/2018 10:18 AMPosted by
Jugajr
Most RL comparisons made to video games are bad, just saying.
... something about opinions and having one too and something stinking.
You know just because your class doesn't stack intellect doesn't mean you as a player should avoid it all costs as well...
I posted in another thread just the other day that to fix the majority of the issue is to just put rated arena back..if you give twinks a goal to strive for and a better sense of community and into a cesspool of toxicity, that would help tremendously, the number of twinks in low lvl bgs would drastically go down because having rating and stuff like that is more fun than just mindless bg spam and stomping on randos, for the most part all the twinks i know crave competition which is why there are tournaments held every once in a while in certain brackets
Edit: You think i que on my 59 to roflstomp? nah fam i que to snipe alliance twinks and assert my dominance
10/31/2018 09:46 AMPosted by
Jugajr
10/31/2018 09:44 AMPosted by
Myninja
...
Technically speaking, the separation happened in WotLK, before the forums change. So there is no way to validate his claims since the old forums don't exist.
This happened way back in Wrath? I have definitely seen low level bg complaints since then from levelers.
There were ways to get around this. In the 60 bracket a common strategy was to que with a group of twinks and then have 1 person hold the flag the entire match while farming GY and then before the bg ended you'd just /afk out...another i heard of a guy who had a lvl 10 twink priest with hundreds of thousands of honorable kills who would exploit an add on and turning his internet off while doing something with the xp guy, not 100% how it worked but has since been fixed like 3 expansions ago.
10/31/2018 10:35 AMPosted by
Shruika
Sometime in wrath i think they enabled the xp off feature and then put people who had xp off into their own seperate ques and then that changed only recently just this expansion or maybe at the end of legion so it used to be the way it is now wrath and before
Changed during legion because templates and enchants being disabled pretty much removed the need for separation. They just reverted the templates, but not merging of brackets in bfa.
10/31/2018 10:50 AMPosted by
Grombo
They just reverted the templates, but not merging of brackets in bfa.
There is still scaling. For example, max level BGs doing a BG right after dinging 120 I was able to keep up with some geared players. Can't imagine it's much different for low levels.