Why adding the OPTION for Undead DK's to use a Human model makes sense

This is an uphill battle, but dammit it’s one I’m gonna fight.

I think it’s awesome seeing the Forsaken get some much-needed attention via in-game lore lately, and as a HUGE fan of Warcraft III, it’s nice to feel like not ALL of the cornerstones of that story have been tarnished.

Now the Undead have always looked like zombies in WoW. It has become a pretty major part of their identity. And Warcraft has always placed an importance on visual cues.

The problem is that Death Knights fall outside the bounds that constitute the “Undead” as a playable race.

There is quite literally ZERO difference between a Human Death Knight, and an Undead Death Knight. Because they are ALL “undead humans”.

So the distinction becomes solely visual (and mechanically, racial bonuses). There is little reason to believe the Forsaken should shun an Undead Death Knight simply because he LOOKS a little less decayed (the reverse may not necessarily be true for the citizens of Stormwind).

And if your Death Knight hails from Lordaeron – which, in all likelihood, makes the most sense they would make up the bulk of the Scourge’s elite Death Knight forces – then why would they choose to go and fight for Stormwind?

Now, the obvious question is “but if they’re from Lordaeron, shouldn’t they look EXACTLY the same as other Undead?”

Well… No.

See, the Forsaken look like decrepit zombies because they were buried and rotting, perhaps for years. You “awaken” as a member of the Forsaken, several years after the Scourge killed everyone in Lordaeron.

Death Knights are different, however. These are forces hand-picked by Arthas himself, and where the Forsaken were all left to rot in the wake of Arthas’ campaign, those he chose to become Death Knights would’ve been resurrected right away. Just as every other race’s Death Knights are more-or-less fully intact, so too would those who originally hail from Lordaeron.

Of course, what I’m proposing would merely be an OPTION.

But consider this:

In every form of media, Blizzard has almost always depicted Death Knights as large, powerful-looking humans. In fact, one of the only exceptions to this rule is Koltira. Just as Thassaurian was designed to be the “envoy to the Alliance”, Blizzard saw fit to create a similar character to serve as “envoy to the Horde”.

Now; wouldn’t it have made the most sense to have chosen a member of the Undead?

So why, then, was the envoy to the Horde, the character to literally represent “Death Knights on the Horde”, made to be a Blood Elf?

There is only one reason:

Because the Undead character-model doesn’t fit “the look” of a Death Knight.

That may sound wild, but it is almost certainly true. Hell, the Undercity literally has Scourge buildings in it. Are they not THE “most fitting” race for a Death Knight? But again, visuals matter. And when Blizzard’s artists are designing cool new armor sets, it is clear that the Forsaken – while very cool in their own right – don’t suit the image they had for Death Knights.

And let’s face it; while every OTHER race got these cool new cosmetic options to choose from for their Death Knight (“undead” skin colors and new hair colors), the Undead were left in the cold.

So while I’m sure there are players who love their Undead DK just the way they are, one could argue that given them a new, unique option for their Death Knights is not only fair, but long overdue.

But more than that; it allows Undead Death Knights to APPEAR as Blizzard’s artists clearly designed them to be, while at the same time, representing the literal faction that most heavily identifies with them. Where other races see Death Knights as outsiders, amongst the Forsaken they are but kindred spirits.

So, I really hope Blizzard will consider adding this option.

Obviously, they would need to be restricted SOLELY to using those “undead” skin-tones. And I would personally add the purple “Cultist” skin color, as well. After all; when coupled with the Horde-only Warfront armor from BFA, can you honestly tell me this DOESN’T look like the poster-child for what a Death Knight should look like?

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If void elves can get undead dark rangers and blood elf stuff. I think undead can get the human (fresh) model that most important undead use. Totally agree. Horde armor looks better anyway.

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Well, not to say “oh Elves got something, everyone else should too!”. Just that I feel like this would be a cool, totally fitting option.

I would LOVE for my Death Knight to be able to walk the ruins of Lordaeron, but it sucks that only the zombified Undead model is an option.

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Honestly, we should have model toggle for races that could support it entirely.

Such as with forsaken and lfd (army of the light)

This shouldn’t just be death knights with this.

I would be okay with this, especially or particularly in the case of DKs. Nathan didn’t use the forsaken model and he was second in command, as someone mentioned above.

Not that I’m a fan of Nathanos, but it does set a certain precedent. The only potential downside is that in his short-story, the ritual performed seemingly required a living being. That might be difficult to justify now, as it would imply that the Forsaken are capturing and sacrificing living humans for those options.

That said, they could simply just say the option is “non-canon”, or retcon things and say your Forsaken was relatively “freshly dead”?

But Death Knights are covered pretty well either way, I think.

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Like I said, at least for me, it would be awesome to finally be able to bridge that gap between “LOOKING like a Death Knight” and “being able to continue playing with the race I feel most closely relates to the class itself”.

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I’m fairly certain that the reason the forsaken look the way they do is that, for the most part, they were not freshly risen. Their bodies had time to decay.

The magic utilized to reanimate them is also much waker compared to that of the Lich King which, on top of having fresher bodies, explains why the Death Knights still look “living”.

As for giving Forsaken customization to make them look closer to Death Knights, I don’t think it’s something that will be possible right now.

We know from Steve Danuser that customization is rolled out when and where it makes sense. It’s why darkfallen options took this long.

Death necromancy isn’t an available solution for reanimating the dead, so using that to justify “living dead” options of various races for forsaken wouldn’t work.

It’ll take time before they are able to formulate a new ritual, likely utilizing the Light given the way Calia was risen and how she takes on a “living dead” appearance.

However, that kind of ritual is far from being possible for the Forsaken to conduct on their own.

As for using death magic? Nathanos only got his current model because of a very specific ritual and the help of the Val’kyr to get a flesh body. It’s also not even his body. He used a ritual to steal the body of his cousin. Player characters don’t have family members though.

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Well that’s just false. One was Forsaken and given the power to become a DK with different necromantic power. And one was a Human that was raised to become a DK.

Not solely, but still an important distinction.

That’s also not true. That’s the bulk of the Forsaken, not DKs.

Also false.

Why?

I think you’re seriously grasping at straws here.

They got dead looks because they’re dead. Undead are already dead.

Nowhere is there prrof that this is how they wanted them to be.

Old generations. Not current ones. And that’s a human. Not a Forsaken.

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Once upon a time, Nathanos DID use the stock undead model.

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If we could get a proper undead death knight that looks good I would race change back instantly. My DK started as an undead, but the model and animations just felt goofy.

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The Forsaken are literally just undead humans, though. Culturally, they are starting to differentiate themselves more, but that doesn’t change that they are still undead humans. Thus, a Human DK and an Undead DK are the same thing.

And yes, the bulk of Death Knights would indeed come from Lordaeron. Because that’s where the Scourge was operating, particularly during the time between Arthas’ return from Northrend, to his departure back. There were also those Paladins to journeyed to Northrend and willingly chose to serve Ner’zhul, but it seems like Blizzard mostly forgot about those. But that’s neither nor there.

In any case, I think the option certainly makes sense. That’s not saying “EVERY Death Knight SHOULD look like this”, merely that presented as an option, it makes a great deal of sense. Certainly more so than Void Elves or Night Elves getting “Dark Ranger” skins (which I’m not hating on, but those are certainly a pretty big stretch in terms of lore).

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No, they aren’t. They’re actually multiple races. Mostly humans, but still multiple races.

And they aren’t Human anymore. They’re rotting zombies, as their lore states.

No. They wouldn’t. You might want to brush up on your lore.

Because they aren’t our generation of DKs.

It doesn’t and no DK race should get an entirely different model option.

Nelfs are literally in the lore being raised like this in Darkshore. And this isn’t Velfs becoming Dark Rangers, it’s literally the banshees turned Dark Rangers from Quel’thalas who decided to go back to the Alliance, because Helfs are now a subrace of Velfs.

Dark Ranger is a customization of skin tone and eyes. You’re asking for an entirely different model and new customizations for one class of one race. Apples and oranges.

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Undead are just over ripe humans. So give them the free trinket slot and in return, cannibalism can be baseline for DKs.

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Zombies are rotting humans

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I mean, you’re double undead. That’s like an undead who has gone even further beyond. I don’t play Horde and even I think it would be fitting specifically for Forsaken DKs. If they give you guys the Lightforged Undead at some point, I don’t think that race should be able to be DKs.

In fact, I think it’s going to be difficult to justify new DKs beyond the ones risen by Bolvar. Will The Veteran of the Third War talent be the same on AR/Panda DKs? These are critical questions that must be answered, Blizzard!

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If you can shift your head-canon to say “High Elves are a subrace of Void Elves”, then surely Undead DK’s are perfectly reasonable.

You say no DK race should get a different model option, but as I would point out, Undead are the ONLY core race that did NOT receive any unique options for their own Death Knights. Now mind you, I’m not saying the option necessarily needs to be Death Knight-ONLY, merely that if nothing else, it’s an instance where it makes sense.

It seems like you’re simply defending what’s already in-game, while attacking anything that isn’t already in-game. I have absolutely zero issues with Night Elves or Void Elves getting Dark Ranger options. But it’s a BIT of a stretch. No more so than a Death Knight from Lordaeron that is less decayed-looking than the typical Forsaken model.

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Nah, yeah it. Youre soot on OO. It absolutely makes sense. Youre correct on everything mentioned.

A lot of folks are just loaded on contrariness and live to argue.

Would love for Undead to have access to an undead looking Human model as an option. That would be spectacular and would absolutely fit the design space Blizzard has occupied with already established notable death knights.

Also, lol, at people saying Void Elves are High Elves. High Elves are essentially extinct and no longer exist. Void Elves are outcast Blood Elves. Nothing more.

It’s not headcanon at all. They gave Darkspear Trolls customization to be other Trolls. They gave Bronzebeard dwarves customization to be Wildhammers. They gave Velfs customization to be Helfs. This isn’t rocket science.

Because they’re already dead. Still doesn’t mean they should get the human model with customizations.

So now you want Forsaken to be Humans. :woman_facepalming:t4:

… it’s called lore. So yeah. Stop trying to add things that don’t exist.

Not anymore, according to Blizzard. You’re wrong.

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human and orc are the races that define their respective factions, they’re the only models that should never be on the opposite faction.

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