They hear the voices of the Path of Glory, screaming for vengeance.
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I think the only distinction is the following:
Hence also calling it propaganda.
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Huh? How often is this a thing?
They’re up there, but I think Night Elves have them beat. At least since the start of BfA.
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The players sure say it, forsaken players make more excuses for there war crimes than any other type of player.
They go in stages, alliance lives dont matter only horde lives do, then sylvanas kills horde, then they go, horde lives dont matter only forsaken do, then sylvanas does bad stuff to forsaken, NOT TRUE FORSAKEN.
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See, the WoW fandom is a large, diverse lot full of many differing opinions. So you can probably find a player to say anything that’s convenient for your argument. Really, about the only thing that every member of the WoW playerbase has in common is that they don’t get to decide what happens next in the story.
That’s why I’m more interested in the story than I am in the views of players. If a player claims “Forsaken only believe free will matters if you’re Forsaken” I scratch my head and look to the story to find out if it’s true. And there’s not anything in the story to indicate it’s true.
Firstly, Lilian Voss, Marshal Redpath and Zelling’s free wills were all respected. Even though Lilian Voss and Marshal Redpath used their free will to turn away, and on, the Forsaken. Obviously once Marshal Redpath, and Zelling for that matter, started working actively against the Forsaken they were treated like threats and dealt with, but respect for their free will can only go so far. Zelling’s choice to become Forsaken also represents an exercise in free will, and you’ll recall Lilian Voss actually didn’t want to turn him. But he was useful, and he’d made his choice with as much understanding as could be conveyed by words.
Then I look at the examples of Sylvanas centered attempts at direct slavery, and I discover that none of them are widely known about. Sylvanas kept the details of her plan to enslave the Valkyre queen secret from even her own people. The Derek Proudmore boondoggle was limited to the mission ship and faction leaders.
Then we have odd situations that can kind of look like slavery if you squint the right way. Generally these get classified as mad science experiments and weird stuff from a Christie Golden novel. Starting with mad science experiences, the Forsaken also perform mad science experiments on eachother. It was a plot point in the development of the Blight that it was tested on Forsaken criminals so they could be sure it would affect the scourge. It’s hardly a surprise that the Forsaken would treat their enemies badly if that’s how they treat each other. I don’t think finding out that an apothecary lobotomized a human and then kept her around makes a strong rebuttal against them believing in free will as much as it shows that instead of being executed outright, she was used for an experiment. The Christie Golden thing is this bizarre crackdown on Lordaeroni nostalgia. I don’t know why it happened, but it was clearly Sylvanas’ hobby horse, and it made the rest of the Forsaken nervous enough that she had to engineer a purge of those Forsaken most taken by it.
Some Forsaken will remain loyal to Sylvanas to the bitter end, such is the nature of trash mobs. But I don’t think an argument could be made that the Forsaken have such a cynical view on free will that they believe it only applies to each other. It’s just the kind of argument that gets invented on the story forum when a topic has run the rounds so many time that the arguments mutate into the absurd.
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Cause the story is more diverse than people think players tend to ignore or forget things that challenge how they see something calling it retcons when blizzard had more than one possible path Sylvanas of cours e is the best example of that where you have players ignoring all the bad stuff she did or trying to justify it away cause they don’t want that part of the story to happen
Like tyrande is my favorite character and I know she is at a crossroad does she keep on the path or get blinded by vengeance and become the very thing she was fighting if blizzard makes her a villain I am not gonna scream retcon like some forsaken players like to push with Sylvanas
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This is very true, and I myself am not immune. For the longest time I was operating under the belief that the Forsaken didn’t really have an aristocracy but were instead a kind of pure meritocracy. Sure, they had some nobles in their ranks, since the Scourge wasn’t picky about who it brought back, but I didn’t think those nobles were attached to any sort of leadership caste. Plus the idea of hereditary titles just becomes nonsensical when you don’t really age and you can’t have children.
But a discussion with another poster, and him providing a wealth of examples that I had just been keeping in my blind spot, and I realized I was inadvertently doing this myself. Rather than seeing the Forsaken as written, I was seeing them as I thought they should be written.
That’s admirable. But ultimately you’ll want to see how they develop Tyrande’s character and keep your options open. If they have Tyrande abandon everything you ever liked about her, and then start sacrificing the very nation she created and lead because it was her plan all along, you might start screaming retcon. Despite your good intentions.
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Oh I am sure I’ll complain someone can still not like a direction a story goes assuming there isn’t any real retcons I probably complain about they shouldn’t have her be a villain cause villainizing a victim of genocide is bad or something it depends how blizzard goes about it unlike Sylvanas tyrande doesn’t have a history of being evil or racist just being a hot head and brash
They might also actually retcon things about Tyrande if they decide to make her a villain. (Which is unlikely, IMHO, if that helps at all.) Retcons are not always imaginary.
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Yeah if she ends up secretly a twilight cultist that still wouldn’t be a retcon
Why not? Sounds like one to me.
If you don’t consider that a retcon, what would be an example of one?
Sounds like you need to read up what a retcon is
Well, are you saying it’s not a retcon if they never explicitly said Tyrande wasn’t a Twilight cultist? Because sure, that’s the strictest definition.
They also never said Tyrande ordered the Wrathgate. In fact, what if Windrunner has been a puppet of Tyrande this whole time?! Perhaps Slyvanas was simply a mindless undead and she astral projected her will to dominate her. Finding another strong Elf lady just a suitable enough vessel for her schemes.
They never said she wasn’t doing that so if they decide she is - it’s not a retcon. In fact she was around long enough to plot most of the misfortune of the setting…
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I know it’s probably fruitless, but has anyone tweeted this topic at any of the story writers? I feel like it speaks for a lot of people and, honestly, they need to stop thinking that they need to block out all the negativity towards the story.
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Both Draenei female and Draenei male posters always seem to be mega reactionaries. 
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Most male Draenei I know just really like memes. shrug
Well I just did the Calia Voss quest and I was really hoping they’d add more to it from what I glimpsed from the PTR.
And, well, let’s start with the positives. I thought it was cute Calia was at least bringing the undead Nelves toward Deathknell. That’s literally the place to teach ‘Undeath And You 101’. That’s about it. I liked that.
Otherwise - good god.
Okay first off the quest says the rest of the Horde mistrusts the Forsaken and we need to remedy this. I’ve no earthly idea how letting sad undead Nelves talk to Alliance undead characters addresses that.
Secondly if my PC could’ve smacked Voss for bowing to these Alliance characters whilst standing in the Forsaken’s ruined kingdom I would’ve. Again. And again. And again. They are guests in the Forsaken’s home, they ought to bow if anything. My character sprung Derek he should be thanking him. Voss could’ve at least mentioned that.
And finally - just wtf Blizz. There’s more to come as Voss said. But we’ve already been told there’s no plans for 8.3.5. So I have no inclination to believe the Forsaken will get any major world changes that will make their situation better. At this point I’d shut up if they at least made the Cleft of Shadows an Undercity Town of sorts - the Trolls, Tauren and Goblins have areas why not? Its already spooky.
Ultimately I’m not even sure why this quest was included. It seems to exist to give a start to some sort of Forsaken closure but it doesn’t. I guess I’ll stay optimistic. Voss did say there’s more to come. But I felt like I just started an Alliance allied race quest not the epilogue to my favorite faction’s most devastating expansion.
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Is there an Alliance quest to see the events between Voss, Calia, and the Undead Night Elves? I heard Valeera shows Alliance players what happens, like how Voss showed Horde players the scene between Calia and Derek last patch. But I haven’t found anything Alliance side yet.
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