Not really… the character himself is unreliable. Taking his dialogue as half-truths at best is something that would be expected from a soon-to-be villain. If you look at Senator/Chancellor Palpatine throughout the Star Wars Prequels, almost everything he says is a lie.
I think the whole thing becomes much easier to swallow when you also see Bwonsamdi as a double agent for the Jailer. Who lies not only to deceive us but also to deceive the Jailer.
INTERIOR LOWER GUNSHIP DECK
The three hooded figures kneel by an artillery hatch, hands bound.
Shaw: The flight plan I just filed with the High King lists me, my men, and High Overlord Saurfang here! But only one of you!
An SI7 agent opens the artillery hatch.
Shaw (shouting above the wind): FIRST ONE TO TALK GETS TO STAY ON MY GUNSHIP!
A second SI7 agent grabs the first hooded figure and hangs him out the hatch into the howling wind.
Shaw approaches the first hooded figure, then draws and cocks his pistol.
Shaw: WHO PAID YOU TO GRAB HIGH OVERLORD SAURFANG?
The first hooded figure remains silent. Shaw fires his pistol out the open hatch and the SI7 agent yanks the first hooded figure back in, sapping him quiet (of course not taking a life).
Shaw: HE DIDN’T FLY SO GOOD! WHO WANTS TO TRY NEXT?
The SI7 agent grabs the second hooded figure and hangs him out the hatch.
Shaw: TELL ME ABOUT SYLVANAS! WHY IS HER CREST THE SHATTERED MASK?
The second hooded figure says nothing. Shaw presses his pistol to the hooded figure’s head. The second hooded figure remains silent.
Shaw: A LOT OF LOYALTY FOR ESSENTIALLY THE SAME QUESTS!
Third Hooded Figure (Sylvanas): Or perhaps he’s wondering why someone would shoot a man when it would be throwing out everything he could possibly gain…
Shaw, intrigued, turns to the third hooded figures. The SI7 agents drag the second hooded figure back in and shut the artillery hatch.
Shaw: At least you’ve got voice acting. Who are you?
Third Hooded Figure (Sylvanas): It doesn’t matter who I am or how nonsensical I act… Just wait and see. What matters is my true plan.
Pretty sure Obi Wan also deals in half truths. Besides Bwomsamdi is shown to be a broker of power. He wheels and deals with mortals. Of course he’s duplicitous. So are car salesmen it doesn’t make them evil.
I’m coming into this a bit late, but I’ve got to say, you’ve outlined your points very well, OP. Personally I still feel a lot of enthusiasm for the Forsaken race, and I’m still having fun playing one in this period of transition and turmoil. But… my biggest fear right now is that we’ll become the post-Vol’jin Darkspear. Worse, in fact. We’re homeless, and leaderless. And if Blizzard leaves us that way, a bunch of refugees in Orgrimmar, then everything that makes the Forsaken unique and interesting might as well be thrown away. We are a part of the Horde, sure. But we were always different, always culturally distinct. To let that slip entirely would be horrible, and that’s what I’m worried about… Not even the weird story turn we’ve taken, but the future of neglect that’s looking to be ahead of us, in an expansion that doesn’t seem to focus on Azeroth at all.
Debatable.
Obi-wan didn’t have ominous music playing whenever he entered the room, and trick Rastakhan into an untimely death.
Sure, the morals of Bwonsamdi could be debated. Fine. But I feel like there are classic narrative cues to him being a villain. Cue I believe. That is all my point is.
He did no such thing.
Maybe but it’d be a waste of a very interesting character with the better half of two decades of build up.
Then again that describes Azshara there so you might be right. It’d just be an outlandishly silly squandering.
Eeeeeh… debatable.
And honestly, I get the idea of Bwon being a baddie sucks for Troll fans. Honestly, if I was a troll fan, I would be particularly worried about him. This is Blizzard after all, folks.
Wouldn’t be the first.
As a nelf and naga fan, I am also very worried about Azshara. She lives, for now, but till when?
Honestly, the Forsaken need a lot of help … and a lot of work. Look … I like Voss. I think she “could” make for a great Forsaken leader with the proper TLC, even if she actually hasn’t gotten it yet. I always felt like she had “a” foundation built to be a great Forsaken rep; and she always has been a great example of Forsaken Free Will. She’s had the potential … but none of the work. But … she’s still leagues better than the alternative Calia, who also has none of the work.
I also really like Tattersail; thought Velanora was always charming, if a bit bare bones; I do think there is a time and place for a Chainsaw like Belmont; and Faranell is criminally underused. We also have Tehd Shoemaker, and Chadwick Paxton’s group was one of the most enjoyable elements of BfA. On top of this. we now have the opportunity that the destruction of the Helm of Domination allows. Them getting back to their roots and freeing the minds of those they can free.
But … all of this will need a ton of work and passion to capitalize on.
Seeing Night Elves on the same list as trolls and gnomes over mistreatment by Blizzard is hilarious.
Rastakhan knew exactly who he was dealing with when he called upon Bwonsamdi. Furthermore, Bwonsamdi never promised Rastakhan eternal life, or safety from all dangers. He promised Rastakhan the ability to recover his kingdom, and this he did. The Zandalari still stand.
Also, lets not ignore the fact that Rastakhan had spent decades thwarting Bwon’s domain, while relying on the power of Rezan to stave off death. And you are right, Bwon fulfilled his end of the bargain. He did not promise Rastakhan immortality; he did not make any promises of sacrificing himself for Khan; and there is only so much stupidity that Bwon should need to make up for.
Also, he clearly had far more interest in Talaanji than her father. She peaked his curiosity, and honestly … she actually might be really resistant to death as long as she remains without heirs. Bwon is liable to go a whole lot further to protect the member of the blood line he actually seems to enjoy teasing; as well as the one that is the last of her line.
Yeah, but as he patron Loa, he didn’t help defeat the Alliance invaders either. We all know Bwonsamdi was there, he appeared as soon as Talanji named him. As I mentioned, classic narrative cues are at play here. His timeliness, his demeanor, the music. Explicit evidence that he is a villain, no… But I don’t think Blizzard has ever been known for their subtlety. I believe he will be a villain because Blizzard is making it obvious that he is.
I mean, he did though. The Alliance were driven out of the city. He just didn’t save Rastakhan personally from being killed.
He might very well be made into one, because it’s Blizzard. That doesn’t mean he is yet. He is somewhat of a typical trickster god, who can be antagonistic sure, but he has done nothing outright villainous to the world at large… yet.
A giant black moon would like a word with you about ominous villiounous overtones. Or were the severed Orc head Tyrande threw into a pitch black moonwell; and the demon possessed eyes supposed to be heroic motifs? Yeah, may not want to stoke the fire about who’s patron diety is secretly evil when we’ve got lovely little whispers like: “The Fall of Night Reveals Her True Face”.
“The Fall of the Night Warrior reveals the True Face of the Moon/Elune”?
It wasnt like the dead orc had a family or was a good orc, all the horde we kill before that where running a death camp.
Yes really. Characters say things to flesh out their personalities and deliver lore to us as the player. Sometimes they can be unreliable, but what you’re saying is that everything Bwonsamdi has told us or said has been a lie from Shadows of the Horde to all of BfA.
That is a reach.
Anyway, this thread isn’t about Bwonsamdi. We shouldn’t derail it too far.
So did the Gilneans. The Darkspear got the Echo Islands back at least. Teldrassil is still a charred husk.
And the Gilneans will never get vengeance against the Horde (Genn wasn’t even at Siege of Orgrimmar) or the Forsaken (thanks to Anduin showing him not all Forsaken are evil and Sylvanas abandoning them).
Rokhan was acting as leader the whole time. That was a technicality at best, and one already being corrected in 8.3.
Been nine years for Gilneans.
Are you sure it is the Darkspear that are the most hated?
I’m just gonna correct this real quick, assuming you meant the second “siege” at the end of BfA, he was at the side entrance to Ashenvale with a bunch of worgen.
Of course, if you meant the MoP raid then yes, he wasn’t there last I remember.
Genn got his revenge on Sylvanas and the Forsaken in Legion. He literally smashed the future of the Forsaken people, denying them the ability to continue on and undoing Sylvanas’ evil plans with Eyir.
Sylvanas also went full villain recently, so the chance of actually killing her or seeing her dead has dramatically increased.
Can’t say the same for Kul Tiras though.