Who does Blizzard think the Horde player is?

[Zuleika-hyjal (Zuleika)]

Well, that was basically her plan at the Broken Shore, except with Legion instead of Naga. Casualties were lighter than she expected, so it didn’t quite work out

Source for this?

[Carmageddon-hyjal (Carmageddon)]

Well, that was basically her plan at the Broken Shore, except with Legion instead of Naga. Casualties were lighter than she expected, so it didn’t quite work out, but hey, no loss to her , so why not try again sometime?

That’s quite the head canon you have going there.

[Iyasra-moon-guard (Iyasra)]

Problem is the tauren dont fit into the mold of the horde most tauren rp dosent fit into the mold of the horde…the horde right now is some scourge rogue elf empire

[Aurael-drakthul (Aurael)]

Edgelords who screech ‘FOR THE HORDE’ at Blizzcon? The problem is the Horde was founded on a victim complex that no longer exists. Undead aren’t victimized by anyone besides the Scarlet Crusade (essentially extinct.) The orcs are respected/feared by all but the racist and naive holdouts. The tauren were never victimized by any races of the Alliance. The darkspear had more to fear from their own kind than anyone else. Goblins were never persecuted at all.

The world isn’t hostile to the Horde. The Horde is the largest source of hostility in the world. So what you end up with is a perpetually self-righteous group of aggressive oafs who have absolutely no idea how to create stable, sustainable systems of government without being fueled by violence, conflict, and profit and whose narrative evaporates when it can’t rely on imminent doom or avenging some sort of permanent chip on their shoulder.

[Carmageddon-hyjal (Carmageddon)]

Undead aren’t victimized by anyone besides the Scarlet Crusade (essentially extinct.) The orcs are respected/feared by all but the racist and naive holdouts. The tauren were never victimized by any races of the Alliance. The darkspear had more to fear from their own kind than anyone else. Goblins were never persecuted at all.

The Forsaken sent emissaries to the Alliance, who were promptly vanished, and the Alliance sent soldiers to hunt the Forsaken. Also, the Scarlet Crusade is apparently still a going concern. The Worgen leader ambushed a Forsaken fleet and tried to kill their leader.

The Orcs tried to escape the conflict by switching continents and were pursued by humans who wanted to wipe them out. Those same humans are back with the Alliance.

Those same humans tried to wipe out the Darkspear for no apparent reason whatsoever.

The humans also tried to wipe out the Bilgewater goblins because “no witnesses”.

The dwarves repeatedly invade Tauren land and kill them while searching for Titan artifacts.

[Fritaya-azshara (Fritaya)]

The dwarves repeatedly invade Tauren land and kill them while searching for Titan artifacts.

Remember the Stonespire

[Syriyna-amanthul (Syriyna)]

Well, that was basically her plan at the Broken Shore, except with Legion instead of Naga. Casualties were lighter than she expected, so it didn’t quite work out, but hey, no loss to her , so why not try again sometime?

The novel, Before the Storm, literally contradicts that headcanon of yours. She retreated because the Horde faced annihilation, not because of some perceived belief it would cripple the Alliance. She actually regretted both Vol’jin’s and Varian’s deaths. In fact, there is a good chance she wouldn’t have tried to pull this stunt if Varian was alive. She just believed the Alliance was vulnerable due to Anduin’s inexperience and her perception that he lacked his father’s strength of character and skill as a leader.

[Aurael-drakthul (Aurael)]

Then by this logic the Alliance is more of a Horde than the Horde ever was. The races of the Horde have books upon books of wrongs to your cherry-picked paragraphs that conveniently leave out massive chunks of context.

The Forsaken sent emissaries to the Alliance, who were promptly vanished, and the Alliance sent soldiers to hunt the Forsaken. Also, the Scarlet Crusade is apparently still a going concern. The Worgen leader ambushed a Forsaken fleet and tried to kill their leader.

The Alliance has no problem with undead unless you’re a homicidal maniac. The Worgen leader ambushed a Forsaken fleet because the Forsaken leader invaded and bombed his city, attempted genocide on his people, and killed his heir. Sylvanas also killed her own people for trying to reconnect with their families.

The Orcs tried to escape the conflict by switching continents and were pursued by humans who wanted to wipe them out. Those same humans are back with the Alliance.

This is after they invaded Azeroth and instigated several continent-engulfing wars of conquest involving and stooping to nothing less than enslaving dragons and using dark magic.

You can’t cry ‘b-but look at C!’ without acknowledging A and B. The Horde has literally always been the aggressor.

[Jôtaro-moon-guard]

Blizzard clearly is taking a page from every different camp of Horde players’ gripes and sticking them into the Horde player. Never mind that just makes us look like idiots who can’t make up our minds on our actual stance.

[Laeth-hakkar]

he Worgen leader ambushed a Forsaken fleet because the Forsaken leader invaded and bombed his city, attempted genocide on his people, and killed his heir.

… during a truce, cause we were all united in trying to stop the demons from wiping us all out.

[Dotzy-kargath]

Blizzard clearly is taking a page from every different camp of Horde players’ gripes and sticking them into the Horde player. Never mind that just makes us look like idiots who can’t make up our minds on our actual stance.

Pretty much. They’re trying to have the PC represent all ideologies of the Horde, and because of the way gameplay mechanics work, where we have to complete quests in order to see the story progress it has resulted in a dizzying incoherent mess.

[Narinsil-wyrmrest-accord]

Looks like they’re writing it for the Baine/Saurfang crowd that enjoy faux ‘honor’ and self flagellation. It’s pretty clear they intend for that side to win and ‘overcome’ the Horde’s ‘evil’ by pleging it to the Alliance.

[Aurael-drakthul (Aurael)]

… during a truce, cause we were all united in trying to stop the demons from wiping us all out.

That didn’t stop Sylvanas from taking a detour to enslave an angel for personal gain, openly sabotaging our efforts to acquire the Aegis, and threatening our entire operation in the Broken Isles to stop the Legion.

Cherry-pick some more, please. The Sylvanas Defense Brigade blinders always impress.

[Hahahahahaha-grizzly-hills (Hahahahahaha)]

What is a man?
[flings his wine glass aside]
A miserable little pile of secrets!

[Laeth-hakkar]

Cherry-pick some more, please. The Sylvanas Defense Brigade blinders always impress.

Huh? I’m not cherry picking.

That didn’t stop Sylvanas from taking a detour to enslave an angel for personal gain

It was to be able to create more Forsaken and keep them from decaying, so the exact opposite of personal gain.

openly sabotaging our efforts to acquire the Aegis

She didn’t?

and threatening our entire operation in the Broken Isles to stop the Legion.

Again she didn’t, Genn breaking the truce and attacking the Forsaken forces therein did though.

[Aurael-drakthul (Aurael)]

It was to be able to create more Forsaken and keep them from decaying, so the exact opposite of personal gain.

Sylvanas treats her own subjects as just that; meatshields, fodder, and tools. Disposable. She’s killed them dozens of times just in BfA so far (Assault on Undercity and in Arathi just to name two occasions.) This is ignoring that damning more to enslavement in undeath is hardly an act of mercy. It was a power grab, through and through.

She didn’t?

Eyir is aligned with Odyn. By attempting to subjugate her it would’ve royally pissed Odyn the hell off. You really think he would’ve allowed us to enter the Halls of Valor if we’d used trickery and an alliance with Helya to rob him of his most loyal and powerful servant? But Sylvanas didn’t care about that…no she was much too concerned about saving lives

[Laeth-hakkar]

It was a power grab, through and through.

It wasn’t though, the scenario and reason she came back originally disproves that. She cares about the Forsaken… in her own screwed up Yandere way, but she does care about them.

Eyir is aligned with Odyn. By attempting to subjugate her it would’ve royally pissed Odyn the hell off.

Which Genn would have had no knowledge of at the time. And there’s also the question if that would even annoy Odin.

You really think he would’ve allowed us to enter the Halls of Valor if we’d used trickery and an alliance with Helya to rob him of his most loyal and powerful servant?

He had no problem with the demon king dood coming and doing all of that after everything he did.

[Aurael-drakthul (Aurael)]

Which Genn would have had no knowledge of at the time. And there’s also the question if that would even annoy Odin.

That’s not the point - the point was that Sylvanas was endangering us winning Odyn’s favor. Not what Genn did or didn’t know. We know his motive was to foil whatever Sylvanas was scheming.

He had no problem with the demon king dood coming and doing all of that after everything he did.

He thought very lowly of Skovald; he allowed us to fight him only because he was sure we’d win (and he was technically entitled to challenge us.) You really think he’d hand over the Aegis to us after robbing him of Eyir and allying with Helya? Honestly?

[Laeth-hakkar]

the point was that Sylvanas was endangering us winning Odyn’s favor.

Not really from what all transpired.

We know his motive was to foil whatever Sylvanas was scheming.

His motive was revenge. I don’t disagree with his motive, but he chose to carry it out while a truce was in effect and everyone else was dealing with the Legion.

You really think he’d hand over the Aegis to us after robbing him of Eyir and allying with Helya? Honestly?

Yes, specifically because of

and he was technically entitled to challenge us.

He didn’t stomp Skovald the moment he showed up, he had us have to kill him after we had done everything the legit way.

[Dotzy-kargath]

Genn was def in the wrong. He had no idea what Sylv was doing and attacked a Horde fleet anyway. Dont use the bs excuse that Sylv was doing something selfish and for personal gain when Genn was literally only out for personal revenge.

This has been discussed to death here though and the only final conclusion most people can come to is that this was a pretty good example of a morally grey storyline since both sides can be easily justified, though obviously some of us will take more hardline stances one way or the other.