Who are these Dungeons made for?

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Ahnluta-frostmourne

However, separate from that, I also believe the issue remains where the difficulty and scaling of the dungeons (including affix balancing) is such that in order to complete a +7-9, a typical non sweaty PUG (have to stress that we are talking about non-coordinated PUGs) usually needs to be in M+10 level gear in order beat the timers to compensate for lack of coordination. Of course some dungeons are easier to beat than others on certain affixes, but some outliers like Tyrannical NW, SV is just completely out of reach for most pugs.

But see now they can’t get better 619+ gear, because they can’t beat the 7s-9s and it also takes them forever to get into groups if they get invited at all. Which leads to the OP’s post about these dungeons being designed primarily for players who are either sweaty premades or mythic raiders as they can overcome the intial gear wall via comms and coordinated play.

I get what you are saying, but I still disagree. Shadowlands Season 1 was definitively more difficult than it is now. The Prideful affix required perfect routing and wiping on multiple bosses without Prideful buff meant a dead key. The most notorious one being De Other Side. That season required pugs to play near perfect and forced everyone to know the mechanics.

The reason this seasons seems more difficult is because too many players became complacent in just brute-forcing their way through. They need to learn the mechanics like you pointed out with Skamarok. People also need to be more self-aware of their capabilities and stop rushing through progression.

In terms of your stance on gearing. If they can’t beat the +7s or +9s, then they need to get better. I have zero sympathy for players who hit a soft wall and give up. Seasons generally last for 6-8 months and for some reason all this crying is happening because they cant max out their vault on week 2. If people need to run +5s multiple times to really learn the mechanics, then that’s what they should be doing.