Everything after Wrath was just stupid and ridiculous.
bfa is the worst, the horde should have lost the faction conflict by now
the plot armor is ridiculous
mop did not have bad lore, i guess people just dont like Asian themes
the plot armor is ridiculous
mop did not have bad lore, i guess people just dont like Asian themes
This thread is awesome lol I'm learning a lot about the lore of each expansion without having played them
BC was so bad they had to do a time travel retcon expansion in order to fix it.
Let that sink in for a sec.
Let that sink in for a sec.
If lore is to be upheld (ignoring retcons/fanfics) then Ner'zhul still exists (yes that cunning bugger), as a Lich can only be vanquished if its phylactery is destroyed. One theory is that the massive shard/spire of ice that was sent plunging into Icecrown Glacier from the Twisting Nether (aka the Frozen Throne) is the actual phylactery. Another theory is that the gem that is embedded in the Helm of Domination, which the host Bolvar Fordragon now wears is the phylactery. Yet another is that the Armour of the Damned in its entirety is his phylactery. All we know for sure is that the "phylactery" in each of these theories is still intact (partially in the case of the AotD due to shattered Frostmourne).
After all these years of tolerating deviated lore, I can't wait for the humbling experience of listening again to the voice of Ner'zhul (Michael McConnohie) narrate and usher us into the World of Warcraft.
After all these years of tolerating deviated lore, I can't wait for the humbling experience of listening again to the voice of Ner'zhul (Michael McConnohie) narrate and usher us into the World of Warcraft.
Looking back, Vanilla was a hodge-podge where in every zone there were different storylines happening. In some zones it centered around the Horde/Alliance conflict, while in others it focused on fighting an external force (like the DI dwarves or the bugs in Silithus, the Trolls in ZG, etc.). But yes, the lore was somewhat lackluster in that there was no final big bad. But it worked well as a launching pad for further expansions in that many of the Vanilla characters went on in later expansions to be fleshed out more.
BC felt strong at the time because we were fighting an invasion from a world the Legion had conquered.
Wrath and Cata felt good in their end antagonist.
Then came MOP. I didn't care about the panda theme, that wasn't my issue with it. My issue was we just "stumbled" across this hidden island in the middle of nowhere that was NOT in the lore. Kul Tiras/Zandalar, maybe even the Broken Isles were IN the lore and IN old maps of World of Warcraft from back in beta or whenever, but not MOP island. So it felt completely invented and as the first diversion from the "main" storyline.
Then of course WoD diverted to an alternate timeline in which I presume not much of anything happened in present-day Azeroth. It was weird story-wise, but I see what they were trying to do in bringing back classic characters of lore.
Legion felt okay, even if the way they summoned the Legion to Azeroth felt odd. It felt like the final "end" to the Warcraft storyline in that it was the Legion that had plagued Azeroth (literally) since the Orcs first came through the Dark Portal in WC 1 was it? The Legion always cast its shadow over everything and was the progenitor of much of the evil on Azeroth (Lich King, Forsaken/Scourge, Felwood, etc.).
With BFA, it does feel like the economic/military advantage of azerite gives them a good incentive to fight over this resource. But I expect the story to shift toward a common enemy soon as they realize that while they were fighting over azerite, the life-blood of their planet, a bigger foe was gaining ground. Whether that's Azshara or some Old God or some Void Lords, I don't know. But I think the Battle FOR Azeroth will in the end mean the battle for Azeroth's survival rather than for control of Azeroth.
BC felt strong at the time because we were fighting an invasion from a world the Legion had conquered.
Wrath and Cata felt good in their end antagonist.
Then came MOP. I didn't care about the panda theme, that wasn't my issue with it. My issue was we just "stumbled" across this hidden island in the middle of nowhere that was NOT in the lore. Kul Tiras/Zandalar, maybe even the Broken Isles were IN the lore and IN old maps of World of Warcraft from back in beta or whenever, but not MOP island. So it felt completely invented and as the first diversion from the "main" storyline.
Then of course WoD diverted to an alternate timeline in which I presume not much of anything happened in present-day Azeroth. It was weird story-wise, but I see what they were trying to do in bringing back classic characters of lore.
Legion felt okay, even if the way they summoned the Legion to Azeroth felt odd. It felt like the final "end" to the Warcraft storyline in that it was the Legion that had plagued Azeroth (literally) since the Orcs first came through the Dark Portal in WC 1 was it? The Legion always cast its shadow over everything and was the progenitor of much of the evil on Azeroth (Lich King, Forsaken/Scourge, Felwood, etc.).
With BFA, it does feel like the economic/military advantage of azerite gives them a good incentive to fight over this resource. But I expect the story to shift toward a common enemy soon as they realize that while they were fighting over azerite, the life-blood of their planet, a bigger foe was gaining ground. Whether that's Azshara or some Old God or some Void Lords, I don't know. But I think the Battle FOR Azeroth will in the end mean the battle for Azeroth's survival rather than for control of Azeroth.
None, the story may be why some of us keep sticking around.
10/31/2018 04:11 AMPosted by Zionfistbfa is the worst, the horde should have lost the faction conflict by now
the plot armor is ridiculous
mop did not have bad lore, i guess people just dont like Asian themes
It wasn't the Asian theme, it was the whole "Garrosh is destroying the world so please stop kicking our #$% for our crimes and let us join you to stop him" crap.
also this:
Everything after Wrath was just stupid and ridiculous.
10/31/2018 06:12 AMPosted by KhoruneIf lore is to be upheld (ignoring retcons/fanfics) then Ner'zhul still exists (yes that cunning bugger), as a Lich can only be vanquished if its phylactery is destroyed. One theory is that the massive shard/spire of ice that was sent plunging into Icecrown Glacier from the Twisting Nether (aka the Frozen Throne) is the actual phylactery. Another theory is that the gem that is embedded in the Helm of Domination, which the host Bolvar Fordragon now wears is the phylactery. Yet another is that the Armour of the Damned in its entirety is his phylactery. All we know for sure is that the "phylactery" in each of these theories is still intact (partially in the case of the AotD due to shattered Frostmourne).
After all these years of tolerating deviated lore, I can't wait for the humbling experience of listening again to the voice of Ner'zhul (Michael McConnohie) narrate and usher us into the World of Warcraft.
Ner'zhul wasn't really a Lich, he was just a spirit placed in an ice cube by Kil'jaeden. He had no body, and Arthas destroyed said spirit, which would be the same as destroying a Lich's phylactery anyway. "The Lich King" was just a moniker that sounded better than "Undead King" or "Ice Cube King."
Also Blizzard apparently hates Ner'zhul and wants nothing to do with him, considering he was vanquished off-screen for WotLK, and then in a throwaway dungeon in WoD.
Legion Each class gets an order and is the commander yet there are more than 1 person with the title death lord etc.
Void elves were pulled out of the butt of blizzard.
Void elves were pulled out of the butt of blizzard.
It's okay though because we fixed it in an alternate universe and back in time.10/28/2018 11:28 AMPosted by ConiferousAlthough specific characters and chunks of it are fun. The warcraft story as a whole has never been good.
Wow has lore?
10/28/2018 10:47 AMPosted by KelzarVanilla...
Every other expaction at least trued to have a true story with a main antagonist.
Not every game needs a conveyor belt that everyone is strapped to, pulled down and force fed some story about the super villain of the month. Vanilla WoW's story was that there was a world, an imperfect world. It had problems in a variety of forms that you had to deal with. A world where many things were going on at once.
Not the 2 zone, 1 or 2 super villain roller coaster ride we get in WoW expansions. Where you must keep your hands and legs within the ride at all times as you fly down a precreated track with a linear story. Boring.
10/31/2018 06:12 AMPosted by KhoruneIf lore is to be upheld (ignoring retcons/fanfics) then Ner'zhul still exists (yes that cunning bugger), as a Lich can only be vanquished if its phylactery is destroyed. One theory is that the massive shard/spire of ice that was sent plunging into Icecrown Glacier from the Twisting Nether (aka the Frozen Throne) is the actual phylactery. Another theory is that the gem that is embedded in the Helm of Domination, which the host Bolvar Fordragon now wears is the phylactery. Yet another is that the Armour of the Damned in its entirety is his phylactery. All we know for sure is that the "phylactery" in each of these theories is still intact (partially in the case of the AotD due to shattered Frostmourne).
After all these years of tolerating deviated lore, I can't wait for the humbling experience of listening again to the voice of Ner'zhul (Michael McConnohie) narrate and usher us into the World of Warcraft.
Pretty sure Ner'zhul was never a lich though.
I would go with WoD, it all feels so disjointed, forced and unfinished (it is unfinished actually). It could have been interesting if they made it basically a simple time travel into Draenor's past, and if it was actually finished.
In the same way, Legion could have been interesting if we traveled into the past of Argus and explored the planet, starting when Sargeras is still a good guy and finishing with the appearance of Legion and the exile of natives. They could have introduced a ton of Eredar lore and characters, a whole new world we haven't seen before. Instead we got super saiyans traveling on a spaceship to blow a planet up.
Vanilla and MoP are similar in the sense that you aren't chasing a main baddie all the time, MoP felt "organic", just like vanilla, it also didn't have ridiculous super saiyans NPCs. MoP gets a lot of hate for being "out of place" but I don't think it's worse than WoD or Legion, which turned out to be ridiculous spinoffs.
In the same way, Legion could have been interesting if we traveled into the past of Argus and explored the planet, starting when Sargeras is still a good guy and finishing with the appearance of Legion and the exile of natives. They could have introduced a ton of Eredar lore and characters, a whole new world we haven't seen before. Instead we got super saiyans traveling on a spaceship to blow a planet up.
Vanilla and MoP are similar in the sense that you aren't chasing a main baddie all the time, MoP felt "organic", just like vanilla, it also didn't have ridiculous super saiyans NPCs. MoP gets a lot of hate for being "out of place" but I don't think it's worse than WoD or Legion, which turned out to be ridiculous spinoffs.
11/01/2018 03:28 AMPosted by AraskaLegion, which turned out to be ridiculous spinoffs.
Well Legion ended the storyline we started in WC3.
WoD was the worst hands down....
10/28/2018 01:39 PMPosted by Lahgtah10/28/2018 12:53 PMPosted by GnarlyboltA good story doesn't have to have the cliche "bad guy," to catch the attention of an avid reader.
A cliche is only cliche if the audience finds it cliche. That is to say, cliche is subjective(and it has always been.)
A villain or what have you is simply an efficient way to provide conflict for the protagonist(s) to overcome. It also opens new avenues of storytelling because a thinking, sentient villain is far more sympathetic than something entirely unrelatable. It all depends on what point the author is trying to get across, and what kind of story they are trying to tell. Because of this, many stories do, in fact, require a villainous figure depending on the perspective of the protagonist.
Vanilla WoW included such stories, but it had no overarching plot to it. It was like that of a virtual Silmarilion; a collection of smaller stories and adventures for the sake of building the world, but lacking a singular driving plot or protagonist. In vanilla there was no singular villain, but neither was there a singular protagonist. The player characters were simply along for the ride.
I think you make some good points, but I would argue that the Silmarilion does indeed have an over-arching villain: Melkor/Morgoth.
Everything that happens in the Silmarilion is directly or indirectly caused by his marring of the world.
Eru Illuvatar’s words to Melkor are among my favorite in all fantasy literature:
“And thou Melkor shall see, that no theme may be played that hath not it’s utermost source in me. Nor can any alter the music in my despite... for he that attempteth this shall prove but my instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.”
:).
But I do agree with your statement that it all depends on what kind of story you are wanting to tell. I personally think the MMO game format is better for telling a lot of little independent stories, rather than having one over-arching villain per expansion.