Which faction has stronger PvP rogues?

Horde: They get Orcs, Trolls and Undead. Debatably the two most overpowered races in classic WoW as it relates to PvP are Undead and Orcs. WOTF and Hardiness are straight up broken.

Alliance: They get Gnomes, Night Elves, Dwarfs and Humans - all alliance races can play a rogue. Gnomes and Dwarfs are especially strong in PvP against rogues with escape artist and stoneform. And even humans and night elves have some serious abilities they can bring to the table that can make a horde rogue’s life difficult: night elves have stronger stealth, and humans have perception.

My first thought was that it would be foolish to roll a rogue on alliance for PvP since you’d be up against so many orcs and have to worry about hardiness.

But, thinking more on it, I think it’s a closer matchup than on first impression. The dwarf stoneform removes poisons AND blinds, hard countering other rogues. Humans perception helps them detect rogues. And night elves can usually get the jump in a rogue v. rogue situation. Lastly, gnomes can escape artist out of poisons / slows.

Pretty much every alliance race has something in their toolkit that can really mess horde rogues up.

Lastly, rogues do decently against shamans; but are terrible against Paladins. Not only is a rogue v Paladin matchup extremely difficult, but a paladin’s blessing of freedom can really mess a horde rogue’s PvP rotation up as well.

Sure, Orcs’ hardiness is OP, and definitely makes playing alliance rogue difficult for PvP. But, at the same time, Paladins, and stoneform, escape artist, perception and even improved stealth from night elf rogues all make playing a horde rogue in PvP difficult!

It’s very situational but you’re right when you say it’s not as clean cut as horde>alliance rogues. Purely Rogue v Rogue it’s Orc v Dwarf - and IMO its pretty even. Gnomes are a good alternative against other classes to remove frost nova/hamstring/etc. without vanish or imp sprint.

At the end of the day, if you can’t stand a certain race or faction, don’t play it.

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I think it’s fair to say that, 1 on 1 - or in small groups - horde make better rogues; but, in organized BGs, alliance make better rogues.

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Yeah, I’d agree with that. Most pvp vids will feature an UD Rogue again I’d say.

If you rolled dwarf though you’d have an advantage against all rogues. Stoneform would clear up everything they can do to you and will let you vanish with impunity.

rogue vs rogue human is good because of perception but it can backfires vs a orc rogue.
Dwarf rogues are pretty much the better rogues for those fights. They can remove bleed and poison, which means they can blind you but you can’t blind them.
It is also better to be an alliance rogu overalle just like its better to be a horde warlock.

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If you’re going to PvP as a Rogue you go Orc. It’s that simple. If you are a min maxer you go orc. You only pick another race if you like their aesthetic. Otherwise the Orc racials are the best for PvP rogues. The stun resist by itself makes Orc strong for ANY pvp class.

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Best pvp racial is will of the forsaken. Because it lets you not get 1 shoted by the warlock or lose 2/3 of your HP in the Spriest fear.
All the other racials for rogues are easily obtainable by other means such as free action potions that everyone can buys or stealth googles.

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I think the ‘rogue vs shaman’ compared to ‘rogue vs paladin’ argument was the most convincing towards rolling an alliance. Shamans are good against rogues, but I think pallys are better.
With that said, I’m still under the impression that undead is still the best option for rolling rogue in classic.
Do you know how many gnome warlocks there will be in classic.?. I don’t even want to think about it, tbo. Having WOTF is your best counter to all the warlocks, priests, and warriors on the alliance side. Not to mention being able to heal up in combat with cannibalize (when a rogue’s options are limited) is more than any other race can do.
If you do decide to go alliance and you’re having issues with orc stun resist, just target trolls instead.

Are dwarfs really that big a deal? Just gouge the stone form and walk away, it’s not like they can shadowstep.
As for humans and nelf I remember I used to have a blind macro set to scroll wheel and thanks to spell batching I could almost always get a blind off even when getting opened on. Don’t know if this macro is possible with macro system now though.

It’s horde and orc 100% and it’s not even close. Let me explain. First let’s see what every race brings for pvp.

Humans: Perception and weapon skill. Perception only being good versus druids and others rogues and weapon skill being almost useless. Even perception can be argued to not be that good because any good rogue will vanish your perception opener and a good druid will sit bear form.

Dwarf: Way over rated, the racial is honestly complete garbage. On my orc rogue I never lose to dwarfs simply because it’s so easy to force their racial and at 60 you die 100-0 in opener with out a chance to even use blind. It’s sub par at best versus other classes like warrior and druid and really is only good for removing blind and even then it will only win you duels versus bad rogues.

Gnome: LOL, if you’re a good rogue and playing imp sprint you have FOUR ways to break roots, if you need a 5th you are a horrible player and are doing something way wrong, if you lose any fight and blame not having 5 root breaks you are doing something way wrong.

Undead: Worst race to be a rogue, PERIOD. Fear break is only good versus warrior, warlock and priest. Out of those three match ups rogue complete dumpster warrior and priest and hard lose to locks. Plus you already have trinket to break the first fear. If you are dueling any of these classes and it gets to the second rotation of fears you already lost. Also versus warriors and priest it will never go to two fears. You will destroy warriors and priest no problem even with out pvp trinket to break fear, you don’t need two.

Troll: Semi decent, increase DPS is good but lets be honest if you want a dps racial just play orc.

Orc: Insane. Racial gives them more burst damage on top of what they already have and rogue pvp is all about burst damage openers. Second the stun resist. Completely broken, here’s a list of what you can resist;

Warrior charge
Warrior weapon stun procs
Druid pounce
Druid bash
Rogue cheap shot
Rogue kidney
Paladin HoJ
Hunter conc stun
Hunter pet stun
Tidal charm of any class like mage
Any grenade stun

It’s honestly insane. Resisting any of these either means you win or just have a HUGE advantage. Paired with amazing damage racial orc is by far the best rogue class and it’s not even close.

Rogue, like everyone else, is better on the alliance. But it’s extra true in this case because literally EVERY alliance racial, AND paladin, hard counter this class. Paladins have plate armor, divine shield, freedom, protection. Shamans by comparison are easy kill targets for rogues. But just looking at the races, you have to deal with humans seeing you a mile away, night elves being almost guaranteed to get the opener first, and dwarves popping complete immunity to bleeds/poisons. A dwarf rogue can dunk dots then freely vanish. This is much worse to fight than a 1/4 stun resist. Undead/trolls don’t even have any racials vs rogue.

both are good undead for wotf and night elf for shadowmeld.if you arnt goign to play a night elf rogue go horde.

Shadowmeld cant be used in combat in classic. Its garbage for rogues

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I like to play rogue in AV and prefer UD there. Wpvp UD rogues get a lot of attention and bad press, but in bgs it as mostly orcs and trolls.

I don’t see orcs as being the best, when playing rogue I go after casters and wotf is atraight up better imo.

you can get out of combat in classic after you vanish and sap.do you rogue?

Why wouldn’t you just stealth, brainlet?

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Please say one more time that rogues destroy warriors.

That has to be the most untrue thing I have ever seen on this entire forum.

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you can or wait first aid if low on health while they are sapped then shadowmeld and reset fight.

I don’t know if I agree with you on the racial aspect; however, you’re dead on that Paladins alone make Alliance PvP premades better than Horde.

From my experience, Horde PvP success has traditionally had more to do with being very organized and having highly skilled/mature players. This trend + BE Pallies slowly led to a mass skill exodus from Alliance on retail, unfortunately.