Read what you said. Read what I said. People like you are why I argued this point in general.
I don’t always top off tanks before every pull if they’re not down too far. I’m trying to stay in the regen zone as long as possible so I regen mana. If I didn’t regen some mana I’d be drinking so often the group would always be waiting for me. Then tanks lose what ever aggro they’ve accrued in the last fight. Many tanks want to chain pull to keep their aggro up and I try to facilitate that as much as I can. Mana management is often a big deal for healers in groups.
Around here, that’s merely frosting on the cake.
I actually can see healers mana, unlike many tanks that seem to be oblivious to it, if need be I just wait for them. There are a lot of pug tanks that I run with my healer on that are dumber than a brick, but that is a totally different topic but might be related to why all the bad tanks do the pugs and the good tanks that are main tanks in guilds or have been doing it a long time, tend to stay away from pugs. Many times I wont even tank heroics for pugs, even if I am offered gold to do it because it will be an effort filled with frustration.
Almost all my xp has been from pugs and I’ve only had one bad tank. I must be the luckiest player in wow when it comes to pugs because almost all of them have been fine while apparently everyone else almost always gets a bad pug.
Its absolutely this, I do want to chain pull because seeing rage 75+ means I can start the next fight with so much more damage pumping out and its one of the worst feelings as a tank having 75+ rage and the whole group w/ 0 mana and watching theirs go up, and yours go down. Its unfortunate, but thats just the way the game is.
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I understand your concerns about running hc with PUGs, since i tank HCs daily and you were spot on with the statement. Right now, I don’t have high expectations for PUGs, I do tend to give em heads up for incoming pull like “caster in a pack, get back!!” Or “line of sight pull!!” Or remove power word shield with click while pulling. I have been enjoying a lot of pugs lately with the attitude of how stupid people can be in HCs, It just makes me laugh.
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I wanted to do that to the Feral Druid in my H BM who simply refused to go on adds coming out of portals.
Because adds were taking so long to go down I had to tank them off the healer, and so he climbed to top of threat on some rift keepers and lords.
He truly deserved to die but an instance like H BM meant I had to keep him alive.
I was sad.
Maybe the fact that a Feral doesn’t tank says it all. It’s not like they have to talent much, or any differently for it.
I guess that’s why I only tank instances where I have something to gain.
It was the H daily. For anything else where there’s nothing in it for me, I wouldn’t tank for pugs.
Give me a bunch of gold and I will though.
I found that if the tank doesn’t mark anything dps assume it’s go nuts with AOEing everything. As a warrior tank I need to mark a skull and an X to make sure dps follow the targets so I can focus on holding aggro on the other mobs. But some dps still ignore it and spam seed/blizzard/multishot to boost their numbers. They need to realize they aren’t in a 40 man raid anymore competing for DPS meters.
So much this! ^…the one I’ve been running into as of late is, I recently re-speced from Holy to Prot at 70, (already healed every dungeon, was at the point of starting Heroics), I took the time to gear to the max possible Def and then ran dungeons with guildies to hit my def cap, currently at 492, I’m still a work in progress with other things tho, Stam, Spellpower, ect. When I join a group I inform them of this off the bat, as most people doing heroics have been doing so for a bit now. It NEVER fails, agro gets yanked from me from a mage, hunter or sham in 2/3 purp. When I ask them to please ease up on the DPS until I can actually establish some semblance of threat with the only 2 CD’s I have, Righteous Defense (15 sec cool down) and Conc (9 sec cool down), I get…do you even know how to tank…tf? “Do you understand the words coming out of my mouth”, is the reply I want to give…as OG posted, there are many other issues tanks are having to deal with, so when most of you wonder, where tf are all the tanks? We’re opting to run with guild groups, who wants to put up w/that garbage on a constant???
As a healer, I honestly don’t understand how more Tanks don’t go absolutely berserk on groups. I’ll often speak up for them just because I imagine they’re dead tired of yelling at Hunters and what not…
Then people complain about “Toxic” players. It’s like yeah, if you’re not pulling your own weight and people are carrying you through content, they’re going to lose patience with you. That’s not “Toxic”, that’s just real life…
Often it’s just me and the Tank using LOS, and the rest of the DPS just kind of stand around. I haven’t had too bad of luck so far, but it’s pretty consistent. I understand 100% why there’s a tank shortage. Healing is frustrating enough as it is, Tanking would just be too much-- I don’t think I could enjoy it.
Really? I mean Really? That actually happened to you often? Because the dps on my server are just so effin’ happy to get a tank and actually do a dungeon they don’t talk to tanks like that even when they’re bad.
I can assure you there have been groups that I’ve been in where people go nuts out of the gate, or where the mage thinks he should pull something before anyone is ready or the gogogo guys I can promise you I take note of their name and don’t run with them again.
It’s honestly probably why the dungeon running situation is only going to get worse, because I am 100% positive I’m not the only tank who notes two pump chump dps. As a tank I pick my groups, not the other way around lol.
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I hate having salvation on my hunter, but I pull aggro when I should be pulling aggro, example, when I need to trap a target, salvation makes it much harder to beat a tanks initial aoe threat to trapnit, especially a paladin tank.
I kind of like this as a rule of thumb 
Why tank when you can dps 0.0 smh
LOL what? Idk about heroics but i literally tanked every dungeon from 60-70 as Fury/arms with dps gear. So i can imagine if i had a hybrid of tank/dps gear or tank gear that i could tank a heoric as fury. probably not anything beyond that though
That’s great, I don’t know how the hunters that I run with also forget that. I’ve been giving everyone salv in heroics, including hunters and they’re complaining they can’t pull aggro off my shield-hit mobs to trap them!
But doh, how stupid of us to forget that I should just not salv them.
If you’re not dying, then that’s fine. If you’re getting blasted then you should let CC happen.
Yes, you can certainly tank (regs) as mostly fury spec, and even handle some (again, reg) fights as dual wielding. Same can be said for Arms, it’s why there’s a talent at the very top of the prot tree that increases the threat gen of BT/MS while in defensive stance, so that Arms/Fury warriors could tank easier content without respeccing constantly.
But the obscene threat gen of classic fury prot combined with still having all the defensive talents you’ll need for raids + heroics? Thing of the past. Also, fury prot even in Classic only worked well once you were able to attain hit cap and a solid amount of crit. No fresh 60 should’ve been going fury prot unless they’d crafted/bought every BiS possible by P4, and with full prot getting some serious threat buffs in TBC, there is zero reason to gimp yourself while making your healers despise you.