Can you quote where Sylvanas blames the writers?
Except it isn’t given as an explanation as much as a hint to something further. It only goes to evidence the idea she has a deeper goal, which is he relation of the thought. Her ‘true objective’.
I have never bought this argument or assumption. If she was that paranoid she would not put herself on the front line.
Hey, you notice how absolutely nothing has happened as a result of your arbitrary reports?
You’re the orc who cried wolf.
Yes I have, you just ignore it.
The point still stands, in the face of everything you just said. We KNOW for an absolute FACT, as stated in the novellas, as stated in the Questline, as stated in Warbringers, As stated by the Devs themselves, and as determined by additional inductive reasoning, Teldrassil, at the time it was burned, was full of innocents who were incapable of defending themselves, and even if they were capable, lacked the opportunity to do so.
Dazar’alor has none of that. At no point is it said that the attack on Dazar’alor was a genocide. At no point is it said that the people killed within Dazar’alor were helpless or innocent. At no point is it said that the Alliance actively and intentionally killed innocent civilians.
You. Have. No. Argument.
You. Are. Done.
Watched the video, Arthas did not once appear in that entire video, so again, it never happened.
Yes, because Syvlanas has Deadpool-like quality to look past the fourth wall. When she claims that ELUNE! A entity she does not believe in, interfered, that is the equivalent of saying that yeah, something stopped me from acting as I should have, aka: Writer intervention.
Why is that hard to believe? She tried to not be at war with the Alliance and was pummeled by Greymane for her troubles, feeding her paranoia that the Alliance only wants her dead. Considering he has received no punishment for it.
You assume things with no evidence, you see dead bodies and because you see a few civilians who are forced to fight and some who chose to fight, you ignore the ones who ran and thusly assume all fought. I brought evidence you just refuse to acknowledge because it proves you wrong. Again: Dark Iron were hunting civilians who only tried to run, bashing your argument:
‘They tried to get the civilians out of the combat zones’
Or the fact they released a wild beast in a residential area, keep ignoring these points, but I am sorry to say, they still happened. Just because they weren’t put into a fanfiction book doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Oh man, its been about a week, i guess i need to refresh this.
In all seruousness though, There is a very tangible difference between goverment mandated nelf bbq and a few dark iron ignoring explicit orders.
![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
Never said it was the same, never said it was as bad as Teldrassil, what boggles my mind is the excuses people will make to say that those Zandalari Civilians had it coming. I mean, I get it, you don’t like the Horde, so you see all races they have as subhuman and thusly it is fine to commit murder on civilians. But here is the thing, I don’t like the Night Elves and yet, I can still make a good strategic point on WHY Teldrassil burning was the only real option left, just as one can make a strategic point on why those civilian lives didn’t matter in Teldrassil. The thing is, it seems I am the only one being consistent here.
Also, reading the pompous way you wrote your initial post is physical harmful to me. If you’re gonna debate something, talking the way you did is a GREAT way to turn everyone with a brain off from you.
Yes, the Alliance is just as evil because even though Dazar’alor is not the same as Teldrassil, there are quite a few bloody histories that the Alliance has under its belt, and yes, I will for always hold Garithos against the Alliance.
You’re ignoring the scale. Even if I conceded that Garithos was a full blown Alliance sin, they still don’t come off as evil as the Horde. For us to be that, we’d have to start paving roads with children’s bones, burning or blighting entire cities with full knowledge that they’re full of civilians, staking fleeing civilians to walls in front of their kids, and enslaving gods using the powers of our enemy. Among other things.
When the Alliance starts doing that - probably when our king isn’t Mr. Peacetime - THEN you can say they’re equally evil.
I don’t know, Garithos was intent on executing all Blood Elves for succeeding in a suicide mission he gave them, Genn, who is part of the Alliance today, calling for the genocide of all Orcs (and no, I do not buy his: It is just Sylvanas who has to go! Spiel that he sold Anduin, seeing how he was more then willing to slaughter civilians of Dazar’alor with the main excuse that they 'deserve death, cause Horde. Which either he was speaking the truth to Anduin about knowing that only Sylvanas is at fault and that was retconned with Dazar’alor, or the more likely option, he lied to Anduin as Shaw, Genn and Jaina have been doing this entire expansion to hide the one simple truth: Varian died because of Shaw’s own inability to remain undiscovered by the Legion. Not because of the Horde, which the Horde is STILL being blamed for.) Jaina’s genocide of the Blood Elves even civilians who did nothing to deserve it. I could go on, I could bring up Taurajo, which people always bring up: ‘IT WAS A ACCIDENT! THE ALLIANCE THOUGHT THEY WERE ABOUT TO BE ATTACKED!’, which strikes me as majorly hypocritical since Sylvanas thought the same thing and decided the only way to ensure a lasting peace is one that is brought under the Horde’s terms. So that reason is evil and stupid but the Taurajo reason is legitimate? Oh here is another one: They left open escape paths! Yeah, into Quillboar territory which were hostile to the Tauren, meaning that many who ran out there were killed and eaten. Thankfully, not every Tauren has forgotten Taurajo:
"When I heard that the Alliance attacked Dazar’alor, I couldn’t help but think of those lost when they attacked Camp Taurajo. No longer can I sit idly while they continue to slaughter us!
I need you to go to Thunder Bluff, find Sheza Wildmane on the Elder Rise, and ask for some of her personal collection.
I won’t go into detail, but she owes me a life debt, and seeing her would… bring back too many painful memories… for both of us.
Find her, tell her I sent you, and that this absolves her debt. "
Sheza Wildmane (One Tauren, and hinted at not the only, who has not forgiven the Alliance)
, too bad Baine isn’t around to banish her for daring to speak out against her Alliance overlords.
It’s probably been mentioned but I’m not reading 800+ posts but the Alliance only raided Zandalar after the Zandalari attack Kul’tiras.
They made the Alliance moment of aggression into defensive measures and they don’t want to be too mean so they pull out and feel bad about it.
The bad things done by the Alliance are done by people disobeying orders.
Still don’t see where we did anything as bad as what I just listed. Just some headcanons.
Goshom believes that because the Zandalari weren’t technically part of the Horde at the time, that those are rendered non-canon. Which is incorrect.
If you have to headcanon things to justify being upset, the question as to where the outrage is answers itself. Most people won’t go that far for faux-outrage.
The civilians had nothing to do with it, claim that Dazar’alor was a justified attack, whatever, doesn’t matter. The civilians weren’t part of it. And lol… disobeying orders, that is a lame excuse, considering Genn was giving the orders in this invasion and he did not care about civilian casualties.
Incorrect, you see, that is what happens when you just troll and only later on decide to make arguments, you don’t know anything. I conceded that the Zandalari have become part of this war. Much like the Night Elves were part of the war as well by sending soldiers to Silithus to aid the Alliance.
No headcanons, all true considering the text I just posted is literally from the PTR from a quest. Now, what else was headcanon? Garithos wanting to genocide blood elves for not dieing? Happened. Taurajo with these ‘escape routes’ leading to Quillboar lands as well as innocents being killed (as Sheza Wildmane states that the Alliance slaughtered them). So again, where is my headcanon? So far, all I stated was fact and actual lore.
Cry me a river.
“rEpOrTeD, tRoLl”
Nice projecting there, just bc i memed something dismisive and im posting on my dk does that me make garithos?
I can post on my orc shaman or my forsaken priest-all leveled up too- if it would make you feel more comfortable. Dont make me laugh.
What i meant by that is the following:
Both were evil, but The dark iron that went out of their way to brutalize innocents did so against their orders and without the Ally leadership noticing- they were not acting on behalf of the alliance and will be punished if it is found it.
On the other hand, the teldrassil genocide was ordained by the horde leadership- everyone knows the tree burned. The catapult bois and the shamans pretty much sold their souls for the chance of victory and the ones that watched and did nothing are also tainted forever.
The rest of the horde are cool, they werent even there- i dont wish any particular harm upon them
No she doesn’t.
Believe in? I doubt she doesn’t believe Elune exists. God’s are very observable in Warcraft.
In other words, she didn’t blame the writers and you are lying.
Maybe you aren’t like that then, though many Alliance players do seem to be that way, I apologize.
I am pretty sure Genn knew, Jaina knew, Shaw knew. They were there, and the Dark Iron weren’t the only ones who did some civilian endangering stuff. Geblin setting loose a Kaijuu ape with no understanding of friend or foe in a residential district and Genn going on about how the Zandalari should die. Sorry, I think only Anduin doesn’t know at this point.
I doubt she would blame Elune for something like that though, considering that when Elune interferes it isn’t exactly subtle as we saw with Ysera and as we saw with the Deus ex Machina Night Warriors.
Not literally, like dang, but the writers might as well have had her turn to us and wink when she says that.