Albeit why those books are fan-fiction tier level of bad and should be denied vehemently as lore, because they make no sense.
Oh, I think they’re fairly enjoyable stories. And it makes more sense to me than the questline. If Malfurion was key to winning, it seems absurdly silly to not have Sylvanas kill him right there. Whereas if it is an afterthought that goes wrong, leaving it to Saurfang makes more sense to me.
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Yes, but it has no bearing on the war plan. It’s an addition, not a step.
Its not what is being discussed though. Since you are moving the goal post, then I am going to assume I am right.
No, you aren’t, you brought up how Sylvanas didn’t go according to plan, when the plan from the get go was:
- Kill Malfurion to break moral
- Occupy Teldrassil
It still stands that those people could have been rebels waiting to happen, thusly making them combatants, I don’t know about you, but when I ran through Teldrassil seeing those running civilians, they didn’t look like too old, too young, too sick or injured to me.
That’s such a warped way of seeing things, I’m a little astonished.
There is a difference between someone who is facing deliberate and imminent death trying to defend themselves and someone who takes up arms to attack a soldiers or invaders.
One is trying to prevent death while the other is putting their life at risk.
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So guys, we did it.
![:crab:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/crab.png?v=6" ":crab:")
800 ON A BAIT THREAD
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But they are, as mentioned in the novella. You have yet to refute my point.
If goal B mattered so much, there is absolutely no excuse for Sylvanas not to have finished the job herself. That she was there, fully capable of striking the final blow, and not only handed the job off to an underling but failed to ensure her order was carried out is almost a criminal dereliction of duty, if Malfurion’s death was so central to her plans.
Sylvanas does at least blame herself for Malfurion living, too, in A Good War:
- A miracle granted by the honorable hand of a foolish old orc.
And an overconfident warchief. Best to lay blame where it belonged. This was her mistake as much as Saurfang’s.
She also lays blame where it belongs, to the writers who made her act against her own better judgemnt, she also states soewhere, if I remember correctly, that it was also somehow the will of Elune that allowed him to live.
In part I agree, in part I blame the writers who hit her with the idiot stick to give Malfurion the plot-armor to survive a situation he should not have survived, cause we know that Sylvanas would not have walked away and trusted a person she wanted to prove himself to her to finish the job. She did the same with Varimathras, ordering him to kill his brothers (which was the biggest taboo for Nathrezim, killing other Nathrezim.)
You have not refuted my point either, you simply assume that the civilians of Dazar’alor who died were all people who fought back when these facts still exist:
-Gnomes set free a wild beast on a residential area, as I said before, Grong landed first atop a place that had no military value whatsoever, but was a place for Zandalari to get food, it is the place where we here that one NPC talking about cleaving melons.
-Dark Iron are blocking the exit that civilians have been using to escape the battlefield and have summoned forth cataclysmic beasts inside of a residential market. (your argument, they were sieging the temple, my response:) No they weren#t, they were in a residential area and not attacking the temple. As I mentioned before, in Horde if you look right outside the Gate, you see Dark Iron being held back by a Captain, not sure who again, because they were chasing after Zandalari Civilians who weren’t trying to fight, but to escape, so if they cared so much about getting Zandalari out of harms way, why did they chase after civilians who already were out of harms way?
Again, you never refuted these points, you made up your head canon and proclaimed it to be true, even though I can poke holes into it all day long.
I don’t even know if I wanna hit 900.
No disagreement with this point, but if we put all of the blame on the poorly thought out, completely nonsensical writing, we don’t have anything in-universe left to debate. It looks like we had three, possibly four (depending on how the in-game storyline writing was handled) different writers working from the same general set of notes, but no continuity editor to read everything and make sure they weren’t contradicting each other (and sometimes, themselves).
At the end of Stormheim’s storyline Sylvanas lets Genn just walk away and live, too. It’s an established character trait of hers at this point.
True, but this is just so far down the path of bad-writing that even they had to put in a plot-armor dig with the whole, Elune spared him, bs. Aka literal writer-intervention.
Difference of circumstance. Sylvanas just lost her way of securing her immortality and the immortality of her people, if you look at her, she is watching Eyir disappear, and yeah we don’t see her face, but it is fair to say that she was shocked into inaction.
Whereas Sylvanas had not suffered such a blow in the War of Thorns, this order was a order for Saurfang to prove himself, and in lore it is established that usually Sylvanas stands by and waits for said person to prove himself, not trusting them blindly to do it.
How about you actually give a argument, rather then trolling… oh wait… you don’t have any.
If we’re speculating on Sylvanas emotional state in the aftermath results of combat, and we factor in the in-game even quests for the War of the Thorns that are not exclusively contradictory to Elegy and A Good War, it is possible that Sylvanas did suffer a blow to her ego in the fight with Malfurion. In game we saw her low on health, down on one knee, and grunting out in pain when Saurfang arrives. Her line of “I was having trouble finishing him. He was wasting my time” in such a situation might be one of trying to save face, more said to convince herself of that than to convince Saurfang of it.
Perhaps she was trying to save face, but the thing is, this has nowhere near the impact of what Genn did back in Stormheim: A world druid pummeling you versus a vindictive warmonger destroying any hope you had to protect yourself and your people from eternal damnation… the one thing that Sylvanas actually fears. Not really comparable.
This motivation of Sylvanas unfortunately breaks suspension of disbelief. If Sylvanas feared the eternal damnation that death would bring she would not be starting any wars, and she especially would not be on the front line fighting said World Druid.
No, she doesn’t.
She speculates it might be the case.
I believe she also failed to kill Arthas when she had the chance because she wanted him to suffer in Warcraft 3?
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Argument for what? I’m just here to watch you be a pompous ninny. Like here for example.
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The thing is, she started this war BECAUSE of her paranoia and let us be honest, Genn fed right into it. She sees the Alliance as these wannabe heroes who only want her dead, which is why she wants to dismantle them.
Yes, she does.
That she even speculates it shows that they have so little justification for her to walk off that they had to add that as a explanation to their plot-armor moment.
I played WC3, never once did this happen.
Exactly, you have none, I will continue to ignore you and report you for trolling again.