See, I see you talking, but I’m not sure you’re saying anything. What doesn’t make Frost a Pet Spec also applies to Demo/Affliction and Marksman. Yet you would argue those are pet specs. Just because your feelings say it isn’t doesn’t make it true. I can do the exact same argument, though mine tend to come with facts and points.
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Not my problem if you can’t comprehend.
Incorrect. I have never said that affliction was a pet spec. I said demo is a pet spec because the majority of its damage is directly tied to its pet just like BM and unholy is.
Marksman isn’t a pet spec either lmao. Do you even read what you post before you post it?
I have never argued that MM was a pet spec. Making up lies just hurts you.
The difference is I’m not arguing from feelings. I’m making points based on objective fact while you’re making up lies about arguments I have made.
You haven’t mentioned anything facts based. You just post emotions after misreading actual points.
First, I’ld like to apologize, I meant to say Dest/Afflic, not Demo. A little busy raiding as I’m repsonding.
Second: See, look at that. When you are willing to come together on definitions instead of you acting childish in your responses, we make progress.
Third: Glad to see we are in agreement that the only pet specs in the game are Demo, Unholy, and BM under those guidelines. Which is exactly what I said in the other thread, but it looks like you said I was incorrect on that.
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I don’t think this discussion is worth continuing. The guy you’re arguing with mains his rogue. If frost was so great, he’d be maining it right now.
The brutal reality is that Frost suffers from massive whiplash: from Cat through WOD it was a pet spec by their definition (because giving us permanent welly makes it a pet spec in their eyes).
Then Legion/Lonely winter came, incentivizing non-use of the pet. Even in Legion, looking at Hall of the Guardian footage WE usage was around 30-40% for frost mages. By the time they pulled the numbers most people had caught on. If the presumption that the numbers meant noone wanted to use it was true, then everyone would have flipped in Legion, but they didn’t. There would have also been an immediate firestorm related to the current design that forces 20% uptime as well if people actually hated it that much. You just couldn’t play frost effectively without LW and it became painfully obvious by DF.
That being said, most people who really liked welly probably have moved on at this point. OUr dev isn’t even looking into other pressing matters (probably why our friend mains rogue) and won’t even give us the old legion clearcasting indicators to make lining up mega arcane echo damage easy. Making frost a pet spec again risks alienating everyone who went frost post-legion. I don’t care because the recent dev cycles have had 0 issues alienating everyone else for so long, so it’s kinda only fair, but it’s worth calling out.
TLDR/ their numbers are wrong, but this fight isn’t worth it. Blizzard only understands money and maybe usage statistics. The onyl thing that might make them strong arm the current dev is if lots of people are playing classic with permanent welly but none of those people buy the next expansion. I sure as hell didn’t when I didn’t see summoner on the hero classes list, which would be an elegant solutoin to all previous issues.
I personally am having difficulty forgiving the \dev path for frost: I came back in Legion expecting to be able to play perma pet if I pleased, was disappointed in BFA when I caught on to LW but kept going fully expecting welly to be viable again at some point (given the neglect, I thought it’d be fixed when we were finally looked at), only to have this happen in DF (I kinda knew this would happen so I think in DF when i was active I had welly selected most of the time). They should have pulled the bandaid off in legion, stripped welly out of our class hall, stripped it from our followers, and made it obvious they were anti fun. Then maybe I wouldn’t have been so disappointed or maybe not even bothered with mage or even this game.
I’m sorry but I don’t want to go back to the 15 year old design of welly in TBC… Classic is there for the haters if they really don’t want welly and don’t want our fantasy to evolve. DKs have necromancer talents, Druids are gonig to get keeper of the grove, but for some reason, this class’s fantasy gets shoved into a cage because reasons. There’s a full 2 other damage specs without pets on this class already. Frost doesn’t need to be the same way so it can be fire/arcane mage’s side chick on a rainy day.
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There isn’t any coming together. I have been saying the same thing this entire time.
No it isn’t. You keep saying frost is a pet spec.
What I choose to main has zero relevance on the discussion of whether frost is a pet spec. I don’t have to be maining a mage to have an opinion.
The actual reality is that frost was a spec with a pet not a pet spec. Learn the difference.
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So frost is your side chick spec whose design you have to compulsively control? It’s one thing if the design went a direction you didn’t like and you rerolled, it’s an entirely different thing if you’re trolling people on forums while refusing to play the result you’re defending.
Fine then it’s entirely okay for frost to get a perma pet back just like it did in cat. If you backpedal/attack this statement, I know you’re trolling.
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The spec I play has zero to do with the discussion points in making.
The last time we debated you weren’t even playing mage so your opinions are still just as pointless.
It was removed for a reason. That reason being there majority hated it. It wasn’t even used in pvp. Excuse LW was that much better.
And no just because I don’t agree with your diluted reality doesn’t make me a troll. The fact you even make that claim shows you have a clear lack of points.
Yeah because discontinuing to a play a class whose design changed from what you originally thought it was is the same as refusing to play a class whose design you supposedly love. Maybe i’d play it if the side chick players didn’t get their way all the time.
Yep, it was.
I’m glad you’re finally explaining the numbers.
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Now you’re just being confrontational since I know you know that was not what I meant on the latter statement and how are we not coming together when we both agree on a point?
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Class design changes all the time. The fact that youre trying to discredit my opinion because im not activley playing mage when last tier you didnt play mage makes you a hypocrite.
It was better because of more than just the numbers.
Do you still think Frost mage is a pet spec yes or no.
You can play what you want, but it kills your credibility when you’re defending the status quo and don’t want to experience it yourself. It’s only hypocritical if you’re a masochist and believe people should be forced to play things they don’t find fun anymore. There’s a difference between asking for something back that you enjoyed and refusing to experience the new thing versus saying the new things is better but you don’t want to experience it yourself. It doesn’t really look better, just sayin’.
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My credibility isn’t killed. It’s definitely not killed because I’m playing rogue over mage.
The only one that doesn’t have a clue here is you. I don’t need to actively be playing frost to say that frost has never been a pet spec.
If you really want to go that route you have zero credibility because you don’t do any relevant content and appear to just be a solo player meaning your opinion is worth zero.
You’re trying to discredit my opinion because I’m not playing mage when you didn’t play mage last tier and had opinions is by definition hypocritical
No one is forcing you to play anything.
I’m not asking for anything back and I played mage last tier.
Just sayin you have zero credibility. Zero idea what you’re talking about and are reaching for anything because you can’t make an actual argument.
This is a false statement. I said I wasn’t playing ANYMORE. I actually did play last tier. If you look at my gear, you’ll see PVP gear I earned. So we’re equal. I don’t normall PVP so I didn’t get very far or as far as I would have in PVE, but as far as I see it, you’re no better than me (and I did play some post changes).
I still am failing to see where you’re showing me that mage is so much better if you ran back to rogue. All I see is personal attacks filled with falsehood. Proof would be in the pudding buddy if this was so much better. All I’m seeing is two people who don’t play it.
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You have zero pvp achievements.
We will never be equal. I’m not terrible at the game.
Simple answer. Guild needed a rogue. I play at a level where performance matters. Mage isn’t strong enough to really bring more than one.
I know you don’t have any understanding of this because you don’t actually play group content but it’s ok.
Even then it’s irrelevant. I don’t need to actively be playing mage to have an opinion on how mage is playing or that frost isn’t a pet spec.
It’s not a personal attack when it’s true.
You don’t play at a level that warrants a credible opinion on any group content.
EDIT: You can’t read. It clearly shows solo shuffle rating, it’s missing data on the matches. I’m expecting more toxic elitism on someone that was trying to learn something new.
O I see arbitrary cutoff for particpation, got it, even if it’s the best I could do that season. You’ve done this before where you’ve said no one lower than you can have an opinoin. Glad we got right back into the toxic elitism.
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I can read just fine.
Your highest rating is 1200.
You have zero achievements for rating at 1500 1750 2k 2200 ect.
So add pvp to the list of things you don’t know anything about.
But you said
Now you’re raising the goalpost when i called you on your crap. It’s still a false statement. And we were talking about participation, not raiting. Glad you just couldn’t help yourself with the personal attacks though. I love the toxic elitism too.
And if you love mage so much, I’m sorry you play this game the way others make you. I refuse to do the same.
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I said you didn’t play mage last tier based on statements you made in a previous thread about you not playing mage.
You claimed we were equal and I showed we aren’t.
You play at the bottom end of the game and I play at the higher end. I do multiple levels of group content and you don’t. If you don’t like facts being highlighted don’t claim to be my equal.
You don’t even play group content.
My first main was a rogue and I generally change classes every tier to not get bored.
I. again was talking about participation, we weren’t talking about level dude. Just reminding you:
I’m sorry you misunderstood and just had to make it painfully obvious you play this game way more than me. None of us is playing a mage rn.
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