None of that is lore btw. I also main arcane when I play my mage.
That’s because you don’t understand why it was hated.
Like I said. It now has sone use versus no use.
LW stil would have been the choice because of having to manage the pet on fights like sire. 100% not worth perm pet was never intended to be used for anything but world content once LW was introduced.
You mean major characters that represent our class during the expansion that focused on class lore don’t mean anything in terms of lore? Mmkay. O yeah and modera had bonuses when accompanied by water elementals, implying they were a major part of her kit.
Maybe. I did play frost both ways. And I can fairly say most mages get along fine being forced to play it WITH THE EXACT SAME CONTROLS MINUS BEING ABLE TO RESUMMON.
I mean somehow BM hunters and 2 warlock specs manage. The last part hurts because it’s true. The mage devs at the time clearly wanted us all to use LW because they made it vastly superior. Which from a design standpoint is counter to how blizzard has designed literally almost every other active ability. Many mages kept their pets initially in Legion. When i looked at footage from hall of the guardian 30-40% of frost mages had it. The only reason the usage precipitously dropped was because they made the ability so gimp. If people truly hated it, they all would have jumped ship then and there. In fairness those mages may not even play anymore. They could have rerolled or even quit when their playstyle was made unviable. Bomb and I may have been the only idiots who stayed (and I probably won’t be around much longer? My brother is playing, but I’m not looking forward to buying another expansion every year and I find arena net a significantly less wanton developer, with clearer and more consistent design principles).
Correct. Still never made frost a pet spec.
And they still hated it.
All of those specs are pet specs.
In cat, MoP and WoD, frost was a pet spec if you define a pet spec as a spec that has a permanent pet. Classic wotlk also allows it. Water elemental has been relevant before ice lance. I’m not going to argue with you over lore, because you’re just ignoring it. I’ll repeat what the spec was. Overpowered lonely winter threw everything off.
Some. I’ve seen an off comment here and there, but these forums would be on fire if most frost mages actually cared.
Correct. I guess I haven’t pulled logs, but I would hope that blizzard wouldn’t shaft an entire spec type on a raid regularly. Like does that make sense at all? This game has had pet specs since its inception. Why have raid encounters where they’re not wanted? That sounds like a great way to get guilds to include all their members, singling out particular spec types to perform bad. Imo, a company as mature and well-funded as blizzard shouldn’t have trouble designing a fair encounter. I get that you’ll want some specs to do better on some encounters by alittle bit, but if a spec just doesn’t function, that’s not on the class design if it fits into a general bucket, that’s on the raid encounter team and serious failure at that.
It was the most Pet-speccy during Cataclysm.
You had a heal for your pet (Frostbolt->target pet = you heal your pet). I think all true pet specs have an ability to quickly restore the health of their pet.
Water Jet was a new addition that required you to time your spells with your pet’s own toolkit. This was added because a developer at the time was asking the community on the forums about how they could make the pet have more synergy with the mage.
And you could name the pet! It was a glitch, but it still means they were using the hunter code as a base for the perma-companion.
The only thing it really never had was an appearance on the log-on screen. And I guess that might not ever happen now. : / I waited so long for that only for it to never happen.
Mage has never been a pet spec. It may have had a permanent pet at some point. However it’s still never been a pet spec.
A spec with a pet is not the same as a pet spec.
What is the arbitrary difference between a pet spec and a non pet spec then?
The pet being on the loading screen? DKs don’t do that.
Feeding the pet? Locks/DKs don’t do that.
I think you just kind of drew a random line in the sand about what a “true” pet spec is.
A pet spec has the the pet tire into the entire design and build of the spec. (See BM hunter and how talents increase pet damage ect)
Frost mage is an example of a class that has a pet not a pet class.
DKs have talents buffing their pets.
I think you should stop doing that.
WotlK/Cata had talents and glyphs that buff the pet. Checkmate. The comment I said earlier, the one you replied to, stated that they were most like a pet spec back in that era. Additionally mage’s pet has mostly focused on the pet buffing the Mage, not the other way around. Even today’s horrible rework of Icy Veins keeps that design philosophy in mind. Designing every class to be a carbon copy of each other (the caster buffs their pets) would be rather poor homogeneous design.
Can you explain to me how DK Ghouls are “tied into the entire design” of the class? And then explain to me how Water Elemental was different? Specifically the Cata era? I doubt you even know the mechanics of the pet back then which makes me wonder why you’re even part of this conversation.
“No U” isn’t constructive to any discussion. You’re drawing lines in the sand for an unofficial fan-made term (pet spec) that isn’t recognized in the game. Show me the in-game tag/flag for “pet spec” and I’ll concede.
Frost has never been a pet spec. It’s been a spec with a pet. I’m sorry you can’t understand that.
Unholy DKs have multiple talents dedicated to their pets as well as their lore being a necromancer plate wearer.
I don’t care whether you concede or not. You’re wrong based just on dev decisions.
If frost were a pet spec they wouldn’t have removed the permanent pet.
I think you’ve lost the “pet spec” debate if you’re going to keep repeating the same “it isn’t a pet spec” point word for word while ignoring every point I make.
Devs can always change their minds. They have done so many times in fact.
Do you not remember “Alter Time?” The spell that was removed for several expansions and then added back?
That’s why I’m here. To incite change. There’s countless abilities that have been removed and readded to the game. Why can’t this be readded? They can make room pretty easily on the talent trees. There’s room for multiple playstyles to exist.
I haven’t lost anything. I’m ignoring your points because they aren’t valid. Even the developers don’t agree with you.
Still doesn’t magically make mages a pet class.
You’re not going to incite change because the number of people that want the permanent pet are a small minority.
While it could come back it’s highly unlikely.
Well, the small ignored minorities deserve a bone thrown to them once in a while. Otherwise they never will get anything in life. And no one wants to run a society like that.
I was content with my purposefully underpowered talent, as were thousand of others, and we’d like it back. We cannot compare to the millions who hated the talent, but we still want an option to play the way we enjoy this game, and we still want our companions that have been with us for 14 years to be back by our sides.
No they don’t. No one deserves anything.
If you’re struggling in world content as a mage it’s 100% a learn to play issue.
World content is designed to be competed at a 100% rate.
I had this exact same discussion with either the same guy or another. Kept arguing it’s only a pet class when X is met. No matter how many times I showed that either Frost met X or a “pet class” didn’t meet X; they still kept repeating the rhetoric: “Not a pet spec.”
I’m sorry, every thing you described that made a class/spec a pet spec; Frost met with flying colors, especially when it was first introduced that way in Cataclysm.
Incorrect. Do you really want to repeat this road again where you and one other person ignore facts until the majority of the forum corrects you about the majority not wanting the ele?
You mean that entire discussion you kept getting corrected on and ended up looking like a fool?
That depends, are we going to have a collaborated and set definition of what makes a class/spec a pet class/spec? Are we also talking permanent pets as the determiner or are we counting temporarily summoned pets?
At which point was I constantly corrected? Was it them constantly repeating: “Not a pet spec?”. At the same time, where did I look like a fool? Talking in hypotheticals the other party couldn’t comprehend? Odd, didn’t know doing such was foolish, ty for the knowlege.
Nothings changed. Frost is not a pet spec and it’s never been a pet spec. Just because your feelings say it is doesn’t make it true.
The entire thread.
The entire thread.
The entire thread.
Talking in the thread and not having any idea what you were talking about.