Where is the Mage Water Elemental Pet?

Classes Mage
26

It was the most Pet-speccy during Cataclysm.

  1. You had a heal for your pet (Frostbolt->target pet = you heal your pet). I think all true pet specs have an ability to quickly restore the health of their pet.

  2. Water Jet was a new addition that required you to time your spells with your pet’s own toolkit. This was added because a developer at the time was asking the community on the forums about how they could make the pet have more synergy with the mage.

  3. And you could name the pet! It was a glitch, but it still means they were using the hunter code as a base for the perma-companion.

The only thing it really never had was an appearance on the log-on screen. And I guess that might not ever happen now. : / I waited so long for that only for it to never happen.

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27

Mage has never been a pet spec. It may have had a permanent pet at some point. However it’s still never been a pet spec.

A spec with a pet is not the same as a pet spec.

28

What is the arbitrary difference between a pet spec and a non pet spec then?

The pet being on the loading screen? DKs don’t do that.

Feeding the pet? Locks/DKs don’t do that.

I think you just kind of drew a random line in the sand about what a “true” pet spec is.

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29

A pet spec has the the pet tire into the entire design and build of the spec. (See BM hunter and how talents increase pet damage ect)

Frost mage is an example of a class that has a pet not a pet class.

DKs have talents buffing their pets.

I think you should stop doing that.

30

  1. WotlK/Cata had talents and glyphs that buff the pet. Checkmate. The comment I said earlier, the one you replied to, stated that they were most like a pet spec back in that era. Additionally mage’s pet has mostly focused on the pet buffing the Mage, not the other way around. Even today’s horrible rework of Icy Veins keeps that design philosophy in mind. Designing every class to be a carbon copy of each other (the caster buffs their pets) would be rather poor homogeneous design.

  2. Can you explain to me how DK Ghouls are “tied into the entire design” of the class? And then explain to me how Water Elemental was different? Specifically the Cata era? I doubt you even know the mechanics of the pet back then which makes me wonder why you’re even part of this conversation.

  3. “No U” isn’t constructive to any discussion. You’re drawing lines in the sand for an unofficial fan-made term (pet spec) that isn’t recognized in the game. Show me the in-game tag/flag for “pet spec” and I’ll concede.

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31

Frost has never been a pet spec. It’s been a spec with a pet. I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

Unholy DKs have multiple talents dedicated to their pets as well as their lore being a necromancer plate wearer.

I don’t care whether you concede or not. You’re wrong based just on dev decisions.

If frost were a pet spec they wouldn’t have removed the permanent pet.

32

I think you’ve lost the “pet spec” debate if you’re going to keep repeating the same “it isn’t a pet spec” point word for word while ignoring every point I make.

Devs can always change their minds. They have done so many times in fact.

Do you not remember “Alter Time?” The spell that was removed for several expansions and then added back?

That’s why I’m here. To incite change. There’s countless abilities that have been removed and readded to the game. Why can’t this be readded? They can make room pretty easily on the talent trees. There’s room for multiple playstyles to exist.

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33

I haven’t lost anything. I’m ignoring your points because they aren’t valid. Even the developers don’t agree with you.

Still doesn’t magically make mages a pet class.

You’re not going to incite change because the number of people that want the permanent pet are a small minority.

While it could come back it’s highly unlikely.

34

Well, the small ignored minorities deserve a bone thrown to them once in a while. Otherwise they never will get anything in life. And no one wants to run a society like that.

I was content with my purposefully underpowered talent, as were thousand of others, and we’d like it back. We cannot compare to the millions who hated the talent, but we still want an option to play the way we enjoy this game, and we still want our companions that have been with us for 14 years to be back by our sides.

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35

No they don’t. No one deserves anything.

If you’re struggling in world content as a mage it’s 100% a learn to play issue.

World content is designed to be competed at a 100% rate.

36

I had this exact same discussion with either the same guy or another. Kept arguing it’s only a pet class when X is met. No matter how many times I showed that either Frost met X or a “pet class” didn’t meet X; they still kept repeating the rhetoric: “Not a pet spec.”

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37

I’m sorry, every thing you described that made a class/spec a pet spec; Frost met with flying colors, especially when it was first introduced that way in Cataclysm.

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38

Incorrect. Do you really want to repeat this road again where you and one other person ignore facts until the majority of the forum corrects you about the majority not wanting the ele?

39

You mean that entire discussion you kept getting corrected on and ended up looking like a fool?

:joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

40

That depends, are we going to have a collaborated and set definition of what makes a class/spec a pet class/spec? Are we also talking permanent pets as the determiner or are we counting temporarily summoned pets?

At which point was I constantly corrected? Was it them constantly repeating: “Not a pet spec?”. At the same time, where did I look like a fool? Talking in hypotheticals the other party couldn’t comprehend? Odd, didn’t know doing such was foolish, ty for the knowlege.

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41

Nothings changed. Frost is not a pet spec and it’s never been a pet spec. Just because your feelings say it is doesn’t make it true.

The entire thread.

The entire thread.

The entire thread.

Talking in the thread and not having any idea what you were talking about.

42

See, I see you talking, but I’m not sure you’re saying anything. What doesn’t make Frost a Pet Spec also applies to Demo/Affliction and Marksman. Yet you would argue those are pet specs. Just because your feelings say it isn’t doesn’t make it true. I can do the exact same argument, though mine tend to come with facts and points.

2 Likes
43

Not my problem if you can’t comprehend.

Incorrect. I have never said that affliction was a pet spec. I said demo is a pet spec because the majority of its damage is directly tied to its pet just like BM and unholy is.

Marksman isn’t a pet spec either lmao. Do you even read what you post before you post it?

I have never argued that MM was a pet spec. Making up lies just hurts you.

The difference is I’m not arguing from feelings. I’m making points based on objective fact while you’re making up lies about arguments I have made.

You haven’t mentioned anything facts based. You just post emotions after misreading actual points.

44

First, I’ld like to apologize, I meant to say Dest/Afflic, not Demo. A little busy raiding as I’m repsonding.

Second: See, look at that. When you are willing to come together on definitions instead of you acting childish in your responses, we make progress.

Third: Glad to see we are in agreement that the only pet specs in the game are Demo, Unholy, and BM under those guidelines. Which is exactly what I said in the other thread, but it looks like you said I was incorrect on that.

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45

I don’t think this discussion is worth continuing. The guy you’re arguing with mains his rogue. If frost was so great, he’d be maining it right now.

The brutal reality is that Frost suffers from massive whiplash: from Cat through WOD it was a pet spec by their definition (because giving us permanent welly makes it a pet spec in their eyes).

Then Legion/Lonely winter came, incentivizing non-use of the pet. Even in Legion, looking at Hall of the Guardian footage WE usage was around 30-40% for frost mages. By the time they pulled the numbers most people had caught on. If the presumption that the numbers meant noone wanted to use it was true, then everyone would have flipped in Legion, but they didn’t. There would have also been an immediate firestorm related to the current design that forces 20% uptime as well if people actually hated it that much. You just couldn’t play frost effectively without LW and it became painfully obvious by DF.

That being said, most people who really liked welly probably have moved on at this point. OUr dev isn’t even looking into other pressing matters (probably why our friend mains rogue) and won’t even give us the old legion clearcasting indicators to make lining up mega arcane echo damage easy. Making frost a pet spec again risks alienating everyone who went frost post-legion. I don’t care because the recent dev cycles have had 0 issues alienating everyone else for so long, so it’s kinda only fair, but it’s worth calling out.

TLDR/ their numbers are wrong, but this fight isn’t worth it. Blizzard only understands money and maybe usage statistics. The onyl thing that might make them strong arm the current dev is if lots of people are playing classic with permanent welly but none of those people buy the next expansion. I sure as hell didn’t when I didn’t see summoner on the hero classes list, which would be an elegant solutoin to all previous issues.

I personally am having difficulty forgiving the \dev path for frost: I came back in Legion expecting to be able to play perma pet if I pleased, was disappointed in BFA when I caught on to LW but kept going fully expecting welly to be viable again at some point (given the neglect, I thought it’d be fixed when we were finally looked at), only to have this happen in DF (I kinda knew this would happen so I think in DF when i was active I had welly selected most of the time). They should have pulled the bandaid off in legion, stripped welly out of our class hall, stripped it from our followers, and made it obvious they were anti fun. Then maybe I wouldn’t have been so disappointed or maybe not even bothered with mage or even this game.

I’m sorry but I don’t want to go back to the 15 year old design of welly in TBC… Classic is there for the haters if they really don’t want welly and don’t want our fantasy to evolve. DKs have necromancer talents, Druids are gonig to get keeper of the grove, but for some reason, this class’s fantasy gets shoved into a cage because reasons. There’s a full 2 other damage specs without pets on this class already. Frost doesn’t need to be the same way so it can be fire/arcane mage’s side chick on a rainy day.

1 Like