When will the Horde get better lands

I would say the Draenei didn’t cause a natural resource competition. The two races co-existed peacefully, even traded, so I don’t think that was ever an issue.

I mean, it all started with WC1 because Sargeras took over Medhiv. You’re not wrong.

I don’t think there is a single stage of culture any mortal race can be in that the Legion couldn’t subvert to their purposes.

In the case of the Orcs, they’ve certainly had to grow up as a culture in a big hurry, and they’ve had some expected growing pains because of it. Just because other races were once as tribal/primitive as the Orcs doesn’t excuse the actions of the Orcs.

There isn’t a way to introduce a non-native tool user and not have resource competition. That we don’t have in story development of that reality doesn’t change it as an issue that would have to be dealt with.

The Draenei still would take land, still consume resources, and by introducing the Light worship of Velen to the world would cause competition for the minds of Orcs at some point.

We have a challenge of where on the timeline to stop. Which is part of the stolen agency everyone is suffering from now, too many powers playing puppet master. So yeah, I think there is doubt about who is responsible.

Humans are from the Curse of Flesh, they aren’t a “natural” evolution. (Which, LOL, how2soul that?)

So, if we go back: Old Gods cursed things from the Keepers. Plague of Undeath wouldn’t have worked except for that.

The “natural” development species seems to be Trolls, I think? Then the evolutions from there of NE, etc. So Humans were outsiders creations, and driving out the “natural” beings of Azeroth. Just like Orcs were an outsiders creation on Draenor.

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Funnily enough, it seems like most races aren’t naturally occurring. Titan influence is involved in just about all of them. Trolls wouldn’t even exist if the Titans hadn’t ordered Azeroth.

Right, so who is actually responsible?

Who actually has agency? Has choice?

Now we’re at the point of even a Titan being made a servant by yet another power they didn’t know they were serving.

So what were the Titans actually serving in the end?

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I’d argue everyone has agency/choice.

Nothing is predetermined, the Bronze Flight helps to really drive that point home. People, gods, and monsters alike are all products of the environments which spawned them, but still retain a degree of autonomy.

But how, how does what came from a glorified robot get a choice? I agree they try and put in people choosing their path, but we have a lot of stuff where that’s in great doubt too.

A tautology challenge of multiverses is that if everything, every different option is actually co-existing side by side, there may not actually be choice. Just the dice roll of whatever line you end up conscious in.

My vibe is the arc is leading us to The Dreamer that is Azeroth. Which itself will be a can of worms about choice.

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Real life humans are pretty good at ruining the environment, as well as murdering each other on mass scale.

As usual it feels weird to compare an overly flaw focused tribal culture with a super sanitized medieval European one.

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If orcs will get a normal lands, they will become a normal humans…

Well, they haven’t had the time to really focus on the trees because they’ve been too busy people-wacking since they arrived.

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Sorry but I am not for sale. My love for the Horde is undying and I will in no way join the side that is responsible for not giving the Horde any nice things. You are my enemy and it is my duty to fight you until you are willing to surrender.

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The real reason the Orcs hate Daelin is because he cut down Durotar’s trees before they could.

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nah its because he took the lordaeron Lamp posts.

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Come join us, Erevien. Then together we’ll give the Horde the nicest things ever. We’ll send them on vacation. To the Void!

My life for the Horde. The Alliance will fall! Swobu.

For which of the Hordes will you give yours if in the course of the next civil war it turns out that both adhere to the same policy towards the Alliance?

The side that isn’t supporting the alliance. Which is exactly what Saurfang rebels did. Supporting alliance is a no-go for me. They are my enemy and I will fight them to the last.

If both sides want to destroy the Alliance (and the other side)? What then?

The side that wants to destroy the side of the Horde with the most former Alliance races is my guess. Goodbye Blood Elves and Forsaken, probably Nightborne too. Goblins were neutral and there’s one in the SI:7 so I guess they have to go as well.

you hate the green orcs.

I love Orcs. No matter the color. What I hate is wasted characters who do nothing but weaken the Race they are a part of. Like Thrall who wants to suck on Jaina toes. He is a disgrace.