No, it is based on what we know of Varian and the other leaders. That they were literally trying to court the favors of various goblin factions. Why would they outright antagonize a goblin cartel for little to no gain?(its not like the goblins would care if the Alliance took Thrall anyway)
And Varian, for all his rough edges has never been one to involve innocent people in fights they were never part of!
The Alliance did not go after the Goblins specifically because they were Goblins, but because they wanted âno witnesses.â It was a civilian ship.
And the Alliance needed no witnesses because? The Alliance was already at full blow war with the Horde(the questline happens after the worgens join the Alliance). If Thrall was captured the Horde would know it rather quickly. On that note, why would the Alliance even care about capturing Thrall especially considering he was already neutral at that point and had joined the Earthen Ring?
The entire thing doesnât make sense based on how the Alliance faction leaders acted/their personality and their constant attempt at trying to get the goblins to remain neutral throughout Cata.
Okay, so you should admit the Alliance committed a war crime then. I donât know if youâre actually trying to justify it from an out-of-universe moral perspective. That would be⌠wrong.
Itâs because the Alliance is not as perfect as you think they are.
Again, they werenât specifically out to get goblins, and also, you canât just say âIt doesnât make sense,â and then act like it never happened.
Certain Alliance members may or may not have commited a war crime. That doesnât mean everyone in the Alliance should suddenly take the blame. Because if you want to play that game the list and culpability will definitely be a shorter one then the Hordeâs.
I donât think the Alliance is perfect, but I donât think it would have fallen that low either. Especially for something so nonsensical.
I am not saying it didnât happen. I am saying what doesnât make sense is that Jaina/Varian or anyone who was a faction leader of the Alliance would have allowed it/been ok with the neutral goblins being involved in this a war.
When will the Alliance be humiliated?
More specifically the BfA pre patch, and itâs still going on up until today sadly
Presumably the secrecy angle came from SI:7âs involvement, so them coordinating a fleet there doing what it was doing would have been treated as sensitive military intel.
It doesnât necessarily justify attacking noncombatants, but theoretically surviving witnesses could later identify the ship and/or military units involved if the goblins were captured and questioned by the Horde, and such information could possibly be used to track the shipâs subsequent activities or capture the agents involved for interrogation to attempts a retaliatory strike or rescue.
Indeed many of the Alliance racial leaders probably would condemn or at least hesitate to support so readily doing such a thing, but there have been implications that Shaw and Co. are willing to do stuff off-the-record to protect Stormwindâs interests that Varian, Anduin or other more public leaders constrained by political and moral considerations wouldnât necessarily approve themselves.
Assuming it was SI:7 who coordinated the whole thing, my point still stands. That Shaw/SI:7 would have done it without the rest of the Alliance knowing(although I doubt something so important would not have have Alliance high command be aware of it)
If anyone was to capture Thrall they would simply bring him to Stormwind. Regardless of its track record, the Stockade would still be the place the put a high value Target like Thrall.
I was really just referring to the firing on the goblins as something SI:7 might do that Varian or Anduin wouldnât.
The abduction of Thrall itself was indeed a moronic plot point; he wasnât even Warchief any more, and violently capturing the one important orc who might be able to put a stop to Garroshâs escalating military advances was patently stupid under the circumstances.
Kind of like how it was dumb for Garrosh to think the best way to make the rest of the Alliance back off in Kalimdor was to nuke the one Alliance city that constantly tried to get both factions to stop antagonizing each other. Real wars are caused by nationsâ policies of self-interest putting them at odds, but WoWâs faction war is comprised predominantly of both sides doing things that explicitly arenât in their own interests solely for the purpose of artificially forcing reasons for conflict. (I.e. âAlliance does something thatâs not even good for the Alliance, and it makes the Horde angry, so the Horde does something thatâs not even good for itself, which makes the Alliance angrier,â and so forth.)
Garrosh didnât neccesarily want the Alliance to âback offâ. He wanted them to run in fear. His tactics were effectively âshock and aweâ but the Alliance was only shock for a short time and never awe and instead decided to double down.
Of course, SI:7 was there. We see them. But to try to put it all on them doesnât add up to me.
Thatâs just it though; to his way of thinking, Theramoreâs/Jainaâs desire for peace made them weak, so somehow he thoughtâŚdestroying what was, in his estimation, the Allianceâs weakest member-state would cow the rest into submission?
Thatâs like expecting to intimidate everyone and establish dominance by beating up the smallest, meekest guy in prison.
I mean Garrosh is effectively a bully so that actually checks out that he would try to pick fights with those he thinks weaker then him. And if you beat said meek person enough so that everyone can see what might happen to you could still send a signal to others. âMaybe you are tough, but do you really want to risk what happened to that guy?â
SI:7 agents operating out in the open there kinda makes it âtheirâ operation. Otherwise they wouldnât be so overtly showing their involvement, since their usual function is covert infiltration, assassination and collection of intelligence. They arenât just Stormwindâs âarmy of roguesâ on a given battlefield; they serve a particular purpose, which primarily revolves around operating discreetly.
If SI:7 operatives are openly fighting in numbers to accomplish a mission, that rather definitively makes it their operation, or they wouldnât have so many of their agents on the scene personally taking a hand in securing the objective.
So, SI:7 has their own navy, and sunk the ship?
They may, or their ranking officers might reserve the authority to requisition and command military personnel and material for their operations when necessary.
So, we just gonna ignore: Theramore, Teldrassil, Stormwind ALREADY burned once by the invading Orcs (still counts as Horde, maybe not modern Horde but the pre-Horde), that one Druid academy Garrosh burned in Stonetalon, etc?
Nvrm, someone already covered most of the atrocities, though I should add Gilneas as the Forsaken destroyed that too under Garroshâs commandâŚ
Does having to put up with Anduin as Humbo Supreme count as humiliation?
Excellent job gentlemen (and women) ereviens latest forum account has been banned.
Garrosh didnât do that. Garrosh actually executed the guy who gave the order.