When will the Alliance be humiliated?

I know how I would fix things for my fave female character… but a lot of people won’t like what I want lol.

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Having real women write female characters would be a great start :smiley:

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Except Christie, she’s surprisingly awful at writing women.

Though I do appreciate the fact that she gave Sylvanas a four poster bed, because that’s a bit extra for someone who doesn’t require sleep.

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Honestly? I wish we had more people like Roux writing for blizzard. She’s simply amazing. Shadows Rising was the first book I read by her, but damn, I’m in love with her style. She made you feel for ALL the female characters, even the antagonists

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I liked her stuff too. Though her short story The Paladin’s Beast was on the wierd side with gender bent Arthas as a damsel in distress, but I actually liked how that whole thing was a lowkey jab at fantasy stereotypes.

I loved the depth she added to Nathanos.

I liked Talanji and Apari, it was all good. Apari was a well written villian.

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I know she got crap on twitter for some the tweets she said about men, but I just felt like as a guy, if you’re getting mad about that, than you’re missing the point of what she’s saying, or she’s talking about you. You know?

Love her though. We need more of her.

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Like I said, I would have liked the NEs to be the aggressors in that whole situation. :woman_shrugging: I enjoy the Night Elves that weren’t defanged and protected their forests aggressively.

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Honestly, I would scrap BFA and SL, and I would do something else entirely. Sylvanas would be more subtle. She would have taken advantage of Anduin and his inexperience in statecraft to sew seeds of doubt in the ranks of the Alliance.

Sylvanas would have been peaceful if it were up to me. But be -just- shadey enough to make those already weary of her paranoid. Genn, Jaina, Turalyon would have been the aggressors in any faction conflict. Likely while Anduin struggled to hold the Alliance together.

That entire expansion would have the looming presence of N’zoth in the background, as if he was somehow stoking the fires of this paranoia. Kind of playing to the source material of the Old Gods, make them out to be the personification of people’s fears and prejudices. Which are boiling under the pressure of peace in a world where war has been the norm.

Sylvanas would still be seeking immortality somehow. I would probably have a Shadowlands expansion, but it would be very different than the shadowlands we got. It would be here where the concept of the Night Warrior would be explored. The one who carries the souls of fallen Night Elves to the Stars. Elune would play a much heavier hand as a Goddess of Death. I imagine her like the Raven Queen.

“She marks the end of each mortal life, and mourners call upon her during funeral rites, in the hope that she will guard the departed from the curse of undeath.”

Though, my interpretation of Elune is rather complex. I draw a lot of parallels between her and Odin, at least ideologically. Though manifesting differently. But I will spare y’all my long winded reasoning for why that is.

Honestly, I am not sure how I would rework the Shadowlands expansion, but I feel like Sylvanas’ dealing with Helya needs to be addressed somehow. And I don’t think The Jailer was a satisfying answer. He looked to much like handsome squidward, and so much of the Shadowlands just seemed lazy.

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I like this.

I just LOVED Sira in Shadows Rising. The way Roux wrote her… Sira is my spirit animal. I just hope she doesn’t get “Calia-fied”.

I loved how Sira didn’t even seem to care about the end game - she just wanted to have her fun. I am hopeful that after Sylvanas has her story play out, that Sira steps up to fill the void of the crazy amoral violent broad we need.

Indeed.

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Honestly, I think night elves should be nearly immune to undeath. And I’ll die on that hill.

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Sylvanas could not raise Night Elves into undeath in Cataclysm. There was a quest where you kill SI:7 members that the Alliance picked from non-human races, Night Elves included, because Sylvanas couldn’t raise them.

Well, it seems as though they had the power to reject it, or accept it.

We still don’t know why some of the kaldorei chose to accept Undeath. But we do know that some were able to outright reject it.

Its gonna be a hard one to pull off since we run into so many night elf ghosts.

I wish Sylvanas commiting genocide never happened but the one thing that I find really offensive was they walked back Vol’jin’s vision of her saving the Horde to being a manipulation from the Jailer, and that doesn’t fly with me.

In a perfect world they would have Vol’jin reaffirm his faith in her by him saying that what he said about his vision was true. The Jailer may have whispered to him, but his vision of her saving the Horde came from something good. I imagine it like he saw her, as the Ranger General and that’s what made him make that choice, who she still is.

The only way to “save” Sylvanas going forward is not to erase the bad things she’s done but to double down on who she could become if more people had faith in her choosing heroism.

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I feel like the catalyst is Elune. Many nelf Ghosts are highborne. Who’s society, at the time of Azshara, was peeling away from the Dogma of the Moon Goddess.

Modern Kaldorei have Elune well steeped into their culture. She is at the center of it. Elune is full Kaldorei identity. I feel like, if we really want undead night elves, like Sira and Delaryn, they should be part of the Army of the Dark Moon. Those who chose to come back for the sole purpose of being juggernauts of Elune’s vengeance.

Again going with the Raven Queen motif.
“Bring down the proud who try to cast off the chains of fate. As the instrument of the Raven Queen, you must punish hubris where you find it. Watch for the cults of Orcus and stamp them out whenever they arise.”

And for a little bit of Norse Paganism flavor “Where you see evil, act out against it. Let your enemies not know peace.” - Havamal.

Idk man, Elune should be way more hardcore. We are at like Hardcore level 2 right now. Bump that up to 20.

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That was the biggest cop out for me and a major reason why I think Voljin should just stay dead. Not only did they role back his vision but they completely compromised her character and mission by substituted her for the role the actual lich king should have been undertaking. Zovals actual glove puppet. The one wearing the crown through which Zovaal issued his commands.

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Whoa are you suggesting having your NPC’s raised as undead to “willingly” join their killers sucks?

Come to think of it, given that this is a thread about the Alliance being humiliated, I’m surprised nobody has brought up undeath yet because that’s something that gets inflicted on the Alliance constantly and there is nothing more humiliating than having your friends and allies turned against you. The fact that they are ostensibly “willingly” turning against you and joining the enemy is just an additional humiliation on top of it.

This isn’t even me projecting, the Horde itself recognizes this and as such regularly uses necromancy on the Alliance as a form of psychological warfare. The raising of people like Derek Proudmoore and Delaryn Summermoon were explicitly done in an attempt to inflict humiliation on the Alliance.

And in fact it isn’t even a humiliation at the hands of the Horde anymore because Blizzard wrote them to stay with the Horde anyway even with Sylvanas out of the picture and them having no reason at all to stay.

At that point it’s Blizzard humiliating the Alliance because it implies that those coercive measures that Sylvanas was taking to ensure compliance from undead she raised weren’t even necessary because they were just looking for an excuse to join red team, even though red team are the ones that killed them.

It’s almost like a self-writing comedy sketch because even Horde players seem to be confused by this in the “uh, are you sure you want to join us cuz that makes no sense” way

I can agree with most of that. I can’t think of any good reason why the Night Elves would join their killers.

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