In all seriousness, how much lore do we even have on what the Forsaken are up to now? Have we even seen them apart from the “reclaiming Lordaeron” quest since the end of BfA?
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While Forsaken are willing to take the “risks”, the rest of the world has to deal with the consequences.
If you can tell me now that Arthas and the Jailer have been delt with, new Forsaken won’t get all crazy evil from the soul split and will remain the same then I’m all up for it. But actively creating more undead with murderous personalities is just irresponsible.
Yes, they may be contained and kept to their own zones but we know all it takes is a nod to the right direction and they will gleefully start mass murdering in order to get the chance for more experiments on unwilling live humans.
I really like how the Desolace Council explore other facets of their society and hopefully we can explore them more but for the rest of them their past records cannot be easilly put aside.
I never said they were just going to leave them alone, but they were more than willing to use Genn’s animosity against the Forsaken to give them an edge prior. Unless we’re just going to repeatedly do “crazy cultists with inexplicable population and power surges” back to back to back at this point, I don’t see why “using Genn, then dealing with the Worgen after Lordaeron has been cleansed” would stop being the modus operands of the Scarlet’s? I thought we were trying to get away from garbage, lazy writing?
Genn and the Worgen are usable and lesser tainted, the focus was always on the Undead and Lordaeron first. Plus, it be kinda nice to have the Forsaken actually finally integrate into the Horde a bit more, before we go to so much arm twisting the setting to force a “unlikely allies” scenario with the Forsaken and Gilneans. I don’t even believe the current Faction situation in DF was anywhere close to earned tbh. Let alone those two.
She is, but she’s not their queen. She’s only one seat on the Council that leads the Forsaken.
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With what Belmont says, it seems like the Forsaken are waiting. They are using Calia as a temporary shield from Alliance aggression. I imagine they are taking this opportunity to rebuild and reclaim lost territory in Tirisfall.
I think DF’s current status quo is fine, just needed more of a set-up.
We know this is an operation of volunteers willing to abide by the dragonflight’s rules (no fightin’!) with minimal military presence.
While the two sides are still pretty damn chummy even with that in mind, I think there’s a reason the Horde/alliance military presence is like 1 person each in the embassy
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You know why they’re chummy? Its because Blizz stripped from them any racial or cultural traits or differences beyond looks that might distinguish them. They better get along, they’ve all been rendered the same people. Like that Earthen Ring Pandaran in the first zone that was “called to assist in providing experience on Elementals” … but seems to know no more about the Elementals flooding the camp than her two researcher friends. She behaved and acted just like the other two, who weren’t Shamans.
Blizz has forced a peace through a timeskip and “making everyone the same”. Bluntly, its about the most corporate definition of “Diversity” I can think of on display. Its also “the path of least resistance” writing, which is pretty par for the course of current Blizz. The quest with the kids and the baby proto was cute tho.
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I remember a joke about real life spy organizations and how most of them are terrible since their full name is general public knowledge. Like the CIA (central intelligence agency). And yet you have ones form other countries that are not general public knowledge.
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Why is there such an over-representation of staunchly anti-Forsaken Death Knight players. I’m not the only one whos noticed that, right? Someone posts a rant about Forsaken/Sylvanas like 9/10 times its a DK or Paladin. It seems like they should be the last people who would be upset about them. What’s going on there I wanna figure it out.
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Because Blizzard wrote themselves into a corner.
They have no idea what to do with Forsaken and I dare say never have. This could all change if they were written to have a “hey world look! We are not evil monsters” moment but they for whatever reason don’t do this. Forsaken are THE reason behind every major Horde and Alliance conflict post-Wrath yet little to nothing is written as a follow-up or conclusion to them being post-Sylvanas.
“Were a council now”
GREAT! WONDERFUL! WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?!
People who dislike Forsaken and people who like Forsaken should all despise who they have been written.
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I think it’s a small, but vocal demographic of Alliance Paladin players who had a ‘Road to Damascus’-moment regarding Undeath, but refused to reroll Horde.
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I think adding to that is the fact that the ‘reclaiming Lordaeron’ fantasy is still well-ingrained among Alliance players in general. Time to let this one go though.
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Yeea!
Give it up, you Lordaeron diehards.
We’ve already reclaimed the ruins of Lordaeron.
And guess what?
I’m rubbing my butt on everything. Every square inch.
You still want Lordaeron back?
You better bring your de-butting spray. But seeing as you didn’t even bring gas masks last time you visited, I doubt your preparatory skills.
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The “horrendous process” is also pretty interesting now
We’ve now been told by Margrave Sin’dane of the House of Rituals, pretty much Mrs Necromancy herself, that mortals have really just got a hang up about undeath and have assigned a whole lot of meanings to it that just aren’t a thing.
Damned? Nope! That was just Scarlet Crusade propaganda built on fear of the Scourge
Evil? Nope! That was just people shackled to Zovaal via Domination Magic, regular undead like Thomas Zelling, Calia Menethil, Derek Proudmoore etc are just normal people
Corrupt? Nope! All mortals are going to the Shadowlands when they die anyway, so even if it DID corrupt people, it wouldn’t actually do anything.
All that necromancy is is the art of animating flesh, there’s no cosmic taboo against it besides Light having a chip on its shoulder against Death magic because of Revendreth, the magic that animates the body doesn’t matter (Calia is animated by Light after all, which is why she asked Sin’dane about all of this), and any negative aspects to it are pretty much just people being afraid of the scourge and unable to get past that. The ones who DO get past it (Jaina and Katherine meeting Derek again, the people on the Desolate Council reuniting with their loved ones, Calia in general) end up finding that undead are just people
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I don’t see why this is so hard for Blizzard. Show the forsaken doing stuff and growing that isn’t just their zombie Disney princess talking down to them or hogging the spotlight
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Don’t know if that’s entirely true.
I think there is still one inalienable aspect of standard Necromancy. That the soul is “improperly” attached to the body via a buffer of “Shadow” (or Death).
It’s this misalignment that causes the emotional issues evident in Undeath.
And I don’t think there’s any evidence that this misalignment is caused by the Jailer’s brand of Domination magic. It’s just how standard Necromancy works in the material plain.
Both Derek and Zelling suffered from this misalignment, and their conditions did not seem to improve with Zoovy’s destruction.
Even Calia, the golden goose, might not be immune to his misalignment.
We don’t actually know if her soul is properly attached.
It could be that she has a buffer of Light instead of Shadow, which might cause her an inversion of the standard Undeath experience.
She might be more prone to positive emotions while negative ones, such as anger, are muted.
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I’d still cackle forever if lightsaken would cause people to turn into total ditzes who were physically incapable of seeing the bad side about anything.
It’s hard to say whether that is still canon post-Shadowlands or not. Sylvanas’s problems were attributed to losing half her soul, whereas before that, just being made undead would have been considered enough of an explanation for her personality change. And we’ve been seeing a lot of undead characters (Calia, Faol, nuVoss) who are perfectly well-adjusted and basically act like living humans.
But those non evil Forsaken are low in number in comparison to all the crazy murderous ones we see all the time.
I liked Before the Storm (at least some parts), I liked the Desolate Council and the idea that they are just regular people but just undead.
The problem is that almost always these new Forsaken only want to mess with the living, killing them, torturing them, experimenting on them. That’s why the Alliance and mostly humans are unable to see them as something different.
Forsaken become less interesting to me if their nature is just boiled down to a particularly bad skin condition. The nature of their undeath (or at the very least, the previous nature of undeath) is an interesting spin on the idea of humanity struggling against their baser instincts, and it makes those few who did manage to find a way to continue existing as “normal” exceptional.
I was actually incredibly annoyed by Sylvanas having a huge personality shift with her soul fragment restored, because it flies in the face of what undeath had been up until that point (that and having a bunch of confusing and blatantly incongruent Word of God insistences that she is totally the same and the shard didn’t do what it clearly did).
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