well, I agree with A and B at least
the mindless undead at Deathknell at least are implied to be ‘attempted’ Forsaken whose minds broke by the experience, and are to be mercy killed before they revert back to violence.
And going back to Maldraxxus requires acknowledging Shadowlands and NOT sweeping it all under the rug and trying to pretend it never happened.
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They are slavering meat marionettes, Droite. Something has to have the capacity for feelings before you can go about hurting them with a smug sense of superiority.
I’m of the firm and repeated opinion Maldraxxus and Ardenweald should be used approximately once as a Get Out Of This Corner We Wrote Ourselves Into Card by Blizz to magically fix Tirisfal and Teldrassil.
They already did half of that and I presumed the big seed was going to do the same for Teldrassil but it seems they haven’t finished bludgeoning the Nelves with the melodrama glockenspiel quite yet.
Otherwise only Denathrius and his dreadbois should stick around to sow strife and discord amongst the mortal realm. Because we need an answer to Lucifer, frankly. Beyond that any interaction with the Shadowlands should be an exceedingly rare occasion. Because if we can just waltz into duck mothering heaven to grab a miracle like we’re popping down to the corner shop for smokes this story is going to become even stupider at light speed.
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I don’t know. There have been cases of Zombies vendors in the Forsaken (I can remember at least 2 NPCs in Undercity) and in the Ebond Blade, and even a handful of exceptional Ghouls were shown to be capable of thought and speech. Sentient Zombies and Ghouls probably account for a tiny minority but there are just so many of them still wandering the wastes of Northrend that they would still be a boon to the demographics of the Forsaken. Also, the possibility of Horde San’layn BfA hinted at could resurface.
On another note, Maldraxxus… Having any business with Maldraxxus would imply giving screen time to Shadowlands settings at the expense of… well… non-Shadowlands settings. I can’t say I’m thrilled at the prospect.
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You’d be surprised how untrue this is.
Regardless, I meant more the Forsaken should have gotten something of value before we left the Shadowlands, but I actually enjoyed Maldraxxus as an independent zone from the rest of the SLs lore. I also enjoyed elements of Ardenweald. So what do I know? I am just SO sick of the Forsaken “Victim Complex” power fantasy at this point. And their “we get to continue to treat everyone else like garbage and act like unrepentant villains because we’re the real victim here” crap. Sylvanas was the champion of that, but my god I’m tired of it.
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I also quite liked Maldraxxus. Albeit with a mild background radiation of contempt. Because it was a lot of plot threads and characters practically gift wrapped for the Forsaken instead being handed to a hitherto unmentioned faction. But between the Death Knights and Darkfallenat least it’s a familar feeling of disappointment.
As for the Scarlet Risen I’d include their absorption into the Forsaken as part a larger hypothetical chapter to a Revisiting Azeroth Proper expansion. Where the content excuse for revisiting Lordaeron and Gilneas would be a resurgence of the Scarlet Crusade. Having swelled their numbers in the intervening years in large thanks to the whole offscreen rampaging Scourge thingy they opt to, fittingly enough, crusade into the two northern kingdoms to reclaim them for humanity. Forcing the Forsaken and Worgen to work together to defeat this mutual threat that assures their destruction. That old chestnut plus the imagery of werewolves and the living dead fighting knights in shining armor, and the Halloween monsters are unambiguously the good guys, just feels very Warcraft to me.
The rest of the respective Horde and Alliance would be preoccupied with their own threats. Perhaps the Risen were as easy to help because much of the Scourge Remnant has fled elsewhere to menace factions less experienced with them. Maybe they pop up on Pandaria or launch a full blown invasion of Kul Tiras and Zandalar, having dredged up an entire 2nd Scourge’s worth of bloated, barnacle encrusted corpses from the sea floor.
Idea would be though we got 3rd party problems on every front and the patchs are an excuse for a refurbishment world tour.
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Did the Scarlett’s ever have an issue with Lycanthropy? I don’t recall them ever making a particular stink about it? Let alone why they would care about Gilneas with Genn in charge. Given, y’know, he has seemingly taken the stance that he does not intend for the Worgen curse to pass on to future generations. As it cannot pass down through birth, thus deliberate infection is required. I don’t see a reason for the Scarlet’s to pick a fight with Gilneas and the Alliance, when Genn likely wouldn’t come to the Forsaken’s aid in such a conflict.
Not even with Calia. Especially with Turaylon in charge.
Scarlets would absolutely have issues with Worgen.
They haven’t historically, but I think that’s more due to a lack of depictions involving the two interacting.
After all, the Scarlets weren’t very active in Silverpine or Duskwood.
But, if we follow the Scarlet’s hairbrained logic, it’s safe to say they’d despise Worgen.
Despite starting with Elves and Dwarves among their numbers, the Scarlets became more and more Human-centric and xenophobic towards other races.
The idea of a curse that can corrupt Humans would be a huuuuuuge no-no to them.
Because the Scarlets have a history of sensible, well-thought-out decisions.
In fact, the Scarlet Brotherhood (as they’ve re-branded themselves) are anti-Alliance and Anti-Calia out of the gate because they believe Anduin was culpable for Calia’s death and subsequent “corruption”.
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IIRC the Scarlet propaganda leaflet from awhile back basically had them say that they wanted to use Genn for his anti-Forsaken bloodlust and would put him to the sword immediately afterward because he too is irredeemably tainted.
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But, I mean, again, Genn has no intent of passing down that curse to the next generation; and there are plenty of non cursed citizens within the Gilnean population. Neither Tess or Lorna have chosen to take up the Worgen curse, and that’s not insubstantial. So, outside of a desire to force the Undead and Forsaken to cooperate (which would require distracting every other race on both Factions AND superpowering the Scarlets out of nowhere to pull off) … what exactly is: A) Making the Scarlet’s attack the Worgen WHILE they’re dealing with the Forsaken in Lordaeron?; And B) Is making Genn back the Forsaken if the Scarlet’s aren’t attacking his people yet?
fun fact that I’ve probably mentioned before- in the Greyhawk D&D setting there’s a faction called the Scarlet Brotherhood who’s racist human supremacist faction even against other humans who aren’t of ‘pure enough’ descent. Their symbol is a slightly twisted four-pointed star on a red field.
given nerds liking many nerd things, I do wonder if it’s coincidence.
All of who willingly live with their cursed country-people.
The Scarlets have killed people for much, much less.
Just co-existing with the Worgen is enough to damn them.
And to note, I’m not weighing in on Benedik’s suggestion. We all have our own preferences for the Forsaken’s future.
I was just giving my two cents on what the Scarlet’s think about the Worgen and the Alliance/Calia.
And so far the Brotherhood has been vocal of their dislike for all of them.
True, but as Forumtroll mentioned, they also aren’t above using Genn’s contempt for the Forsaken as an advantage to either: A) Weaken the Forsaken for them; or B) Keep Genn and the Alliance out of their way while they deal with them. The “Worgen of Gilneas” were always portrayed in what little text they have about them as “the next step to purity, but one that comes after the first of purging undeath for Lordaeron”.
EDIT: That said, I’m more of the mind that in any Anti-Cata esk expac, internal issues and rebuilding should be the focus. Lingering vestiges like the Scarlet’s can be local obstacles for the Forsaken in that, or even the Gilneans, but I’m sick of “external threat” focus atm. Far too much neglect on the Internal Nation issues.
Then why do they insist on making more? Sounds like they’re lying.
They explicitly say their intent is to get the Worgen to wipe out the Forsaken so they can then wipe out the Worgen.
I remain baffled why people think the Scarlets would be A Okay with more ex human mutant Halloween monsters.
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Can they even do that now that they don’t have val’kyr anymore?
Anyway, undeath is no big deal nowadays. All the cool kids are doing it. Why, even the dead people in the afterlife are making undead dead people!
Doesn’t stop their experiments which they still did even after they were caught the last 9,001+ times.
I think you’re trying to apply too much logic to what’s just xenophobic fanaticism in the Scarlets. It doesn’t matter if every single worgen is a Good Boy who doesn’t infect others while staying out of Lordaeron’s business. To them, there’s no such thing as a moral non-human.
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What experiments? I only know of the ones commited by that maniac Putress which of course was done without the knowledge or consent of any other Forsaken.
That’s the only one with witnesses I can think of, at any rate. Meta knowledge doesn’t apply to the story at large.
Given that there are straight up Scarlet Monks in the Crusade, I think it’s fair to assume that Metzen let some Greyhawk bleed heavily into the design of the Scarlet Crusade.