Haven’t you read Before the Storm? They’re not evil—they’re just sad and fragile woobies who were abused by mean old Sylvanas and really want to die.
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Tbf all the truly evil forsaken probably got taken out betwen Putress’ rebellion and Sylvanas’ schemes falling apart.
The thing is, my dear Eltharius, that the Horde could have won this war pretty easily, if the Horde player character wasn’t forced to flip flop between “The Horde’s secret superweapon” and “just an irrelevant footsoldier”. Remember that the Horde player character was FORCED to side with Saurfang against Sylvanas and fight the Horde together with his rebellion, destroying the Forsaken strongholds in the process. Not to mention Blizzard’s undeniable Alliance favoritism. Nathanos and his troops managed to claim the scepter of tides, only for it to be stolen seconds later by the equally omnipotent Alliance player character, after it was irrationally sealed away. To sum it up, it’s just ridiculous to point at the Forsaken and laugh when Blizzard designed the story in a way to make YOU sabotage your own faction.
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How do the Forsaken have spies?
The lingering stench must be horrible.
I guess they can use magic and follow in the footsteps of the san’layn or nathrezim.
Also if they are going to be stuck with an evil label why not just scrounge up stragglers left over from the san’layn or nathrezim?
I miss Varimathras.
There’s still Belmont around.
You are right. Historically, the Forsaken are worse.
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I think it’s a good idea to strengthen ties with Maldraxxus. It might even be more efficient than freeing Scourge- remember that the Forsaken tried to do this in Vanilla, but far too many became mindless, free roaming zombies instead. Maybe it might be better to just invite some Maldraxxi footsoldiers to help out?
Outside Darkshore the Forsaken haven’t bothered anyone outside their territory of their own volition. They were strong armed into Gilneas by Garrosh and beyond that they’ve aided allied Horde war efforts overseas and squabbled a bit with the Stromgardi over a resource rich Basin, which still seems mainly in service of aiding the Orcish forces in Arathi. Not sure what the undead would be getting out’ve a wheat farm at any rate.
Beyond that they’ve only secured their power in Lordaeron, a region of which they were the true and rightful rulers long before that overdressed Menethil turned up to sit on an ornate chair.
Did they secure it ruthlessly? Absolutely. But - so? Who doesn’t in this setting? The Bronzebeards straight up shoot adolescent Frostmanes in the face. Silvermoon has mercilessly butchered the Amani in a similar vein for centuries. Orgrimmar see’s no irony in stopping humans from encroaching on their terrirory while brutally doing the same to the indigenous quilboar. Stormwind slaughters it’s own citizens in cold blood by the bushel for daring to stand up to their frequently corrupt absolute monarchy.
Any hand outstreched against the established powers in this world are cut off indiscriminately and with extreme force. But the Forsaken are evil because they unkill a good chunk of their victims?
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find a recent battlefield
lay down, stay quiet and stay still
wait for the slains’ living companions to show up and listen to what they say
?
profit
as to reproduction, there’s still plenty of Scourge wandering around who might actually have their free will back after the destruction of the Helm of Domination. That’s how the Forsaken got started themselves after all.
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I think the old RPG referenced Forsaken disassembling themselves, and smuggling themselves into cities piece by piece.
So that’s neat.
They also had Sylvanas around who used her powers to help pull Forsaken out of Domination/Mindlessness.
Doesn’t mean it’s impossible without her. There are other banshees, afterall.
Though we still don’t know the status of the Scourge post-Shadowlands.
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I actually forget the specifics of how Zelling was brought back in BFA (did it require a valkyr or not?) but I thought that that at least was a great example of rational motivation for choosing to join the Forsaken.
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Yeah, Zelling did require a Val’kyr. As did Stone.
I think you might have missed a couple expansions there, chief.
well, do we know that all the Val’kyr are ‘used up’, or if there are any left to help create more? Though I’m puzzled why they’re needed at all, when any necromancer can create more undead. Is it only beings with especially powerful necromancy can created free-willed undead who almost the same mentally as they were when alive? That still seems like a thing a clever lich could accomplish.
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The Nine were apparently very loyal to Sylvanas and the Jailor, and we essentially kill them during Sylvie’s boss fight during Shadowlands. Or at least kill them as much as you can.
EDIT: Regardless, I can’t think of a nobler way to deal with population issue than by actually saving as many of those poor wretches left in that teeming mass of the scourge; regardless of race; as they can. And Maldraxxus should have had info to help with that. Y’know, cuz the Primus invented that crap.
The Forsaken really sign wave all over the Grando Undead Resilience Graph. Sometimes they’re barely sturdier than the bottom left baseline of 28 Days Later ‘zombies’, able to be (at least seemingly) neutralized with an injury as pedestrian as a snapped spine. Which is an injury even humans can survive, albeit not exactly walk away from.
But then we’ve them reacting to bisection like they just locked their keys in their car. Shrugging off a canon ball to the jaw. Remaining conscience after complete dismemberment. And in one case somehow communicating despite being just a loose brain rolling around your bag like a large wad of bubble gum squelching around the world’s least organized overstuffed purse.
Part of me wants them to hammer down the rules a bit more concretely. But on the otherhand this shrug approach does allow for pretty open ended RP. So maybe they should keep it vague.
Not everyone has the tyranny of will to be a sapient undead. In both Deathknells there’s a lot of shambling mindless meatbags who didn’t take to the liberation as it were, and you’re instructed to take care of them before they get bitey. Thus far the only recorded instance of a rehabilitated mindless zombie is Nathanos Blightcaller. And that was accomplished by duck mothering True Love, which always has miracle powers in these sorts of settings. Second only to the god killing power of friendship.
I maintain the best way to explain away this plot thread is have the Forsaken absorb the Scarlet Risen. That’d;
- Neatly tie the Lordaeronian Scarlet Crusade’s arc in a nice little bow.
- Give something for the Desolate Council to do as Lilian’s an ex Scarlet, Calia is the true Queen of the realm they swore to ‘retake’, Faranell can Plaga Ex Machinia some aid to help, and Belmont can be on hand to be the contingency plan and help organize the ex crusaders once they’re freed.
- Give something for Denathrius to do, or at least his agents, as we now know Balz was one of his flying monkies so what was their angle here?
- Introduce playable Forsaken Paladins which work no matter how you feel about undead using light magic, as even if it’s sheer agony these are religious fanatics. They’d be into it.
- And finally put this question to rest. As this just isn’t a setting that worries it’s pretty little head over logistics. So trying to figure out population numbers is like trying to guess the number of jelly beans in a jar locked the in the same box Schrodinger keeps his cat in.
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Calia is undead isn’t she?
You would seriously rather have the friggen Scarlett undead and Dreadlords(?) join the Forsaken over just having something positive come from Maldraxxus to save that nearly uncountable teaming mass in the Scourge? Who cares if it takes some TLC to bring those wretches back, they more than need and deserve it? Those people’s souls are still in there, and most of the Forsaken didn’t break free on their own. But after Illidan damaged the Frozen throne and Sylvanas pumped some necro juice into them.
Why is your solution “Inject more deranged villains into the Forsaken?”
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I’m a fan of redemption arcs.
And;
A. The thematic nature of the Forsaken viewing mindless undead the same way the living view them is interesting. Some people cant stand retirement homes because of the inevitable entropy they represent. A walking, talking corpse is that on steroids. The Scourge serve as that for the Forsaken, that “There but for the grace of God go I” feeling of disgust. Because as we see from ICC and Scholomance they can still be enslaved by notably powerful necromancers.
B. I like The Scourge Remnant as a villain. I think there’s a lot of fertile ground for them to be a lesser reoccuring threat. Various upstart Lichs, Death Knights and Darkmasters running off to start their own City States of the Damned with the vast host of up for grab mindless undead milling around could be used for much needed enemy variety, local questlines, dungeons and maybe even a patch villain here and there if they go unchecked for to long.
C. I want undead Paladins. This is the best solution to get them.
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So the Forsaken looking at their less lucky kind in disgust and revulsion to make themselves feel better? Rather than doing a damned thing to try to help them, when with Maldraxxus there could be a solution. How “redemptive” of them still reveling in the worst of human nature. Punching down on the less fortunate to make you feel less bad about your own misfortune. While also keeping the Scourge a kinda non-threat, rather than doing something productive with them. All while injecting a bunch of new Villain edge into the Forsaken to reinforce the real “redemptive” power fantasy they seem to have been reveling in. Doing horrible crap to everyone around them while screeching a the top of their lungs “but I’m the REAL victim here!”