I feel like Nourish’s intent is to allow for a reactive playstyle via talents, but it seems like it can’t compete at all with the other two choices and ends up being a serious HPS loss.
Has anyone had any success with it in dungeons?
It’s definitely not intended to be reactive since it requires stacks of hots before it even takes advantage of its mastery boost.
Oh, I read it the other way. Obviously it’ll benefit strongly from having lots of hot stacks, but even just a single hot would behave like 3 on the target, which suggests to me it should beat out Regrowth (say) in that situation.
If you had 10% mastery and one HoT I think the math would be:
Nourish (196 * 1.3) / 2 = 127.4% sp per second
Regrowth (173 * 1.1) /1.5 = 126.8% sp per second
So even before factoring in regrowth’s 40% crit bonus, regrowth would barely be behind in HPS compared to Nourish with one HoT up.
With 2 HoTs:
Nourish (196 * 1.6) / 2 = 156.8
Regrowth ( 173 * 1.2) /1.5 = 138.4
The more HoTs and mastery you have the faster/further it will go beyond regrowth, but the real issue with picking it is giving up cenarion ward, which is really nice to have vs. nourish not being a button you want to press that often.
I haven’t tried it at 60 at all though since it just doesn’t seem like I’d want to cast it very often currently.
I’d guess if you’re night fae, nourish would also do quite a lot after you use convoke if you have grove invigoration since that gives you a lot of mastery, but I’m not sure how often that combination would be useful. Any mastery bonus combo would also benefit cenarion a lot as well.
I wouldn’t consider this talent. The setup required, slow cast time and extra spell on action bar is really not appealing to me in any way.
That’s a pretty big fudging of numbers to omit 40% crit chance.
Also don’t forget it also places a HoT for Swiftmend, can benefit from SotF and can be used by clearcast procs (and the conduit for that) to further boost it’s power and efficiency.
And as you said… you also give up CW.
CW is another button too.
You going to skip out on that too?
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You don’t always get that bonus since there’s not always a regrowth up already, but my main point was that they’re basically even at 1 HoT and 10% mastery even before the crit bonus, which would suggest regrowth is clearly better with the bonus and only 1 HoT.
I mostly pointed that out since someone had commented that they thought Nourish should be better even at only 1 HoT compared to Regrowth since it was like having 3 HoTs mastery wise. At a high enough mastery level, that’s probably true, but at 10% it really wouldn’t be.
The problem is that it’s just not needed.
Inexperienced resto druids often post asking how druids keep people up. If you understand and manipulate our mastery, our single target and burst healing is great.
But you can’t just not prep or have hots rolling and then try hard cast your way through it. Not in any meaningful content anyway.
But what baffles me is that people even want to try. Our strength is our mobility while healing for massive amounts, and being able to dps or use utility with hots rolling.
If you want to hard-cast play a different class.
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I feel that Nourish should’ve been either an improvement for Regrowth instead of being brought back as a spell, since they originally removed Nourish to make Regrowth fulfill its roles. If Nourish instead just increased the mastery bonuses of Regrowth, then it would be much better.
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If Nourish was a regrowth replacement and just functioned like the BfA PvP version (apply missing HoTs, crit bonus if they’re already all up), it’d fit into the kit a lot better in a lot more situations I think. As a regrowth replacement it could also then benefit from clearcasting procs and Nature’s Swiftness.
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I want to use it, but I tried it a bit early on and it kinda sucked. My understanding is that it might shine more in future patches when there’s more stats (ie, Mastery) to be thrown around.
BfA was like that too… Abundance seemed to became a less and less critical pick over the course of the expansion. I’m not using that talent now and I’m kind of feeling it the lack of a spammable heal, but I just don’t really like it’s vibe.
Would you consider Regrowth hard cast? No other spell in the Restoration toolkit can burst heal like a Regrowth can. I wanted to avoid Mastery for Haste but, the Crit + Mastery combo is some insane burst Regrowth action.
False.
Nourish does.
Are you not paying attention?
Here’s some beta testing I did on this very same topic 3 months ago. You’re more than capable of testing this yourself in game today. After 2 hots nourish outheals regrowth.
Regrowth direct heal vs Nourish. Non critical values only. Hots applied first followed by nourish, ending with regrowth.
Side by side comparison
1.8k vs 2k nourish
https://imgur.com/a/ar1GC5e1 hot - lifebloom
1.9k vs 2.4k
https://imgur.com/a/l9GxHMl2 hots - Spring blossoms
2.k vs 2.9k
https://imgur.com/a/QSZUUCq3 hots - Wild growth
2.1k vs 3.3k
https://imgur.com/a/KKsVsBk4 hots - Rejuv
2.2k vs 3.6k
https://imgur.com/a/2EZ5EME5 hots - Cultivation
2.4k vs 4.2k
https://imgur.com/a/GkLuyfg6 hots - Germination
2.5k vs 4.6
https://imgur.com/a/Jl7LLDt7 hots - Regrowth
2.6 vs 5k
https://imgur.com/a/ETZ9Q0SNourish @ 7 hots vs Swiftmend
5k vs 5.2k
https://imgur.com/a/m7LZ5d0Cenarion Ward
5.4k
https://imgur.com/a/8vf7aZTCriticals @ 7 hots
5.2 vs 10.1
https://imgur.com/a/Xb3Sk36After 2 hots Nourish out heals both direct and hot portion of regrowth.
Around 5 hots Nourish non criticals are comparable to critical regrowths.
A fully loaded nourish is comparable to Swiftmend, just shy of Cenarion Ward and not limited by any cooldown.
This^^. The set up required to achieve the full power of nourish doesn’t outweigh the benefits of Using CW.
It has its uses, it’s just not better than CW and good old fashioned regrowth spam.
Yikes.
The cast time of Nourish is very unappealing. Maybe later on when I can stack haste to absurd levels I might test it out and have some fun with it. Cenarion Ward might be what the cool kids use these days but, I like having fast overpowered Regrowths.
Even with Abundance and frequent Clear Casting from 2x Lifeblooms and healing almost 5 million damage in a Mythic Key, a crazy tank with a plane to catch can deplete my mana bar to almost 0.
It’s .05 seconds longer.
Hyperbole.
Again… is that what you think abundance does?
Hmmmm. Honestly can’t remember the last time I went oom.
Oh that’s right… I’m not trying to blanket rejuv the party so that I can “save mana” on regrowth.
In case you missed it in the last thread.
I would not expect any Resto Druid to spend 5500 mana (5x Rejuv) so that they can save 510 mana from a Regrowth cast. It’s when you do cast Rejuv, your Regowths are more potent.
They have a smaller chance to crit.
That’s not really something regrowth needs.
Your definition of the word potent is incorrect.
Of course not…
You expect 10.
It is, but what i’m getting at is the vast majority of rdruids healing is from instant casts. In a dungeon, regrowth is normally like 20% of your healing, if that.
Compared to some other healers who are a lot less mobile and have to plant themselves and cast.
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