The Primalists have a severe Overton Window problem.
For them their idea of a nonpolluted world would be a return to the days of nonstop Elemental conflict If you’ve ever read the description of Elric’s world when it is overwhelmed by Chaos, that’s their idea of a good time.
When I said a Titan’s alignment, I just meant Titan-level beings. The reason the titans are the arcane pantheon and arcane is part of them is because the worlds they were originally the World Souls of were arcane worlds.
If you alter the essence of the world of Azeroth, you alter what type of being Azeroth emerges as. If it remains an Arcane world, she becomes a Titan. If the Old Gods corrupt it, she becomes a Void Lord. And so on, for Undeath, Fel, Nature, Holy, etc.
I mean, the Proto-Dragons came to be before the Titan properly ordered the planet through infrastructures such as Freya’s enclaves. What we perceive as an obviously undesirable state of chaos and endless, vain conflict really corresponds to the world that birthed them, so it’d make sense that it sounds all good to them
However it would be decidedly unhealthy for those pesky mortal insects.
Yes, the Titans did good things, but they’re demonstratably also very much willing to fry us all and start from scratch if things don’t go their way.
One of the things I’m wondering about was if the primal proto dragons weren’t outright hostile to the Dragonflights until they were ordered sealed for not being compliant.
The Primalists had a valid complaint. Even Alexstrasza seems unhappy she had to lock them away. The Red Flight’s charge was to love and protect all life equally, and it is one they take pretty seriously usually. I don’t think she would be one to resort to war without it being the absolute last recourse.
It comes down to a fundamental world view difference. The Primalists liked how things used to be before the Titans ‘civilized’ the dragons. It was an elemental magic eat or be eaten sort of life free of any rules aside from the The law of the jungle. The civilization that the Aspects created using the gifts and knowledge of Order came the strings of law and structure. Those who didnt play by the rules ended up on the margins of society. When Tyr built the halls of infusion and ‘corrupted’ the wellspring with Order Magic they had grown to see as a force of oppression it was sort of a last straw, it seems like.
I mean, the fact the WoE was referenced as a font of Arcane power or Azerite being labeled as Arcane is stuff that we’ve experienced/seen/read about on stuff outside of their little retcon-happy book. But I’d not be surprised if they retconned all of that lol.
Doesn’t seem like the alternative would have been anything other than killing them all.
Yeah, but that seems a lot better. If they died then they’d go to the Shadowlands to whatever intended afterlife they had. Imprisoning them in a smallish cell for 10,000+ years seems kind of scummy in comparison.
You can’t assume that anyone living knew anything about the Shadowlands at that time.
Any form of death seems better than imprisoning someone in a smallish cell for 10,000+ years.
We don’t exactly know what they were “imprisoned” in, but again it’s kind of necessary that things don’t work out. 
Tell me you never played a mage in early WoW, without telling me you never played a mage in early WoW.
For anyone else who didn’t play a Mage back then:
One would think they would of put them into stasis, leaving them awake does seem uncharacteristically cruel of Alex. Or perhaps the others are in stasis, and Razagath was a special case due to where and how she got locked up? Dunno.
There is one slight problem. What caused Aman’thul to become a Titan if this theory is true? Cause he was the first Titan to awaken.
For some reason the Azeroth waters that form the well there were not originally arcane in nature, but elemental (which explains why there’s so much elemental presence there) and uncontrolled change. The well on the dragon isles only changed into order once it was changed by Tyr.
If I were to guess why, I’d assume that Blizzard is now going with the story that Azeroth was not inherently arcane, but was then infused by order magic by the titans to align her with order, probably during the creation of the well of eternity since the titans crafted the well to bandage the wound, and the ordering of Azeroth.
If you are really cynical about it, then only Aman’thul need to have been “naturally” arcane, if we consider that world souls have a natural predisposition to a cosmic power (does not have to be order) since he was the first Titan to awake and found and nurtured all the other titans of the pantheon until they could awake and join him on his travels. AKA ordering them.
This could also explain Eonar’s title as the life binder, maybe her world had naturally a insane amount of spirit or life energies before being turned to the arcane, which is maybe why she is so connected to life.
If we assume that Azeroth was not naturally arcane attuned before, then it seems with what we learn in the dragon isles that she was in fact elemental attuned and not really leaning to either cosmic power. It is interesting considering with the other lore that she is supposedly the most powerful world soul and the secret the first ones tried to hide.
This whole thing is so dumb. Like really dumb. Like “Well Mussolini got the trains running on time so the Black Empire was actually the Shades of Grey Empire wasn’t it?” kinda dumb. Like trying to make forces that they have explicitly characterized as hostile to what we consider to be life amenable to what we might consider to be ‘good change’.
Like, what kind of advancements are the black empire responsible for that make up for the widespread chaos and madness they’ve inflicted everywhere they’ve been allowed to be? They’re so toxic, that even their corpses create toxic refuse like the Sha.
To us? Nothing. We are not beings of the Void. There is nothing about it that is appealing to our kind of life. Just like there’s very little about the Fel or Undeath that is appealing to us.
To the creatures they spawn themselves, it’s presumably an ideal enviroment.
Azeroth is not a Titan. The Titans claim she is a Titan because they don’t want the mortal races to know anything about the nature of the universe and the grand design of the First Ones.
Order is not unnatural, it’s the balance of chaos, but the pollution comes in from using these arcane wellsprings to influnce nature to lean more towards Order. The nature of Life itself is chaotic, so in a way it’s going against nature and distrupting the balance, this part of it is highly subjective as the beings who say this want unchecked chaos to dominate this world.
Long have I scoffed at what I learned of titans, or the void lords, or demons of the Nether. I held Death’s pantheon in higher regard, but now I know that they are just as limited. Truth lies not in one direction or another, but in their intersection.
The First Ones had parceled out their gifts, but gave no child all of them. No wonder these offspring bickered with such incessant jealousy. Their very nature was one of denial." - Firim in Exile Part 6
What I love about this passage is firim is sharing knowledge beyond our grasp but also shedding doubt on the Grimoire of the Shadowlands as it’s still incomplete knowledge, especially the part about the Titans. He said that the Titans merely stumbled on this knowledge and took credit for it and that’s true, Odyn says as much here,
First: All historical records documenting the advancements of the Black Empire are to be purged. Paint that age as one of chaos and misery, a pernicious blight that we keepers eradicated. With the Old Gods locked in confinement, there should be no evidence available to contradict our assertions. Surely if you care for these mortals you would not wish to see them lead astray into darkness.
Second: Attibute all accomplishments and works of wonder to the Titans alone. Despite the relentless arguments made by some of you, this is not a fallacy. After all, can anything truely be said to exist until it has been ordered? of course not. Therefore, it is irrefutable that the titans are the source of all creation.
Third: Do not share knowledge of the First Ones. Mortals could not concieve of the wonders that the makers granted to the Titans of Zereth Ordus. Thus, learning of the Progenitors would only confuse them. It is enough that mortals know the titans brought Order to the cosmos, and that they are owed deference.
Remember: Life is chaos it must be controlled.
-Edicts of the Prime Designate: Volume 742
At their very core the cosmic forces are emminations of the Automa. It seems like these were the “gifts” that the First Ones bestowed on each Pantheon, the gifts were Purpose. Each pantheon has a purpose that aligns with the “jobs” of the Automa. The Titans bestowed thier gifts, just like the First Ones did, onto the Aspects.
These are the Fractals. They call them “fractals” like spirals branching out from a single source but it’s more theologically accurate to call them “emanations” in it’s archaic sense as “a being or force that is a manifestation of God.”
World of Warcraft is Gnostic.
No they aren’t. Order imposes it’s will on the arcane the latter may be a tool of the former but it isn’t Ordered by default.