Some text of the dungeon journals say the Primalist want to return certain locations ‘‘polluted by Order’’ to their natural state.
For example the Halls of Infusion’s 3rd Boss entry says the boss
‘’…seethes with hatred for Keeper Tyr for tampering with the ancient wellspring beneath Tyrhold. Waters that once flowed with the eternal essence of Azeroth have been polluted by Order magic.‘’
But based on previous lore and expansions, the lifeblood/essence of the planet seems to be Arcane in nature (Well of Eternity, Azerite). Therefore it falls under Order. I am also not entirely sure how Azeroth came to be either, did the planet form itself around the Titan? Or did the Titan come after? Depending on the answer I could see why they would consider Order unnatural but it’s still a bit weird to me
Although the Primalists seem to call the practice of Arcane magic in general ‘‘unnatural’’, however even planets without a World Soul like Draenor have been confirmed to have Ley Lines, so I am even more confused now.
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I think it may be a difference between a Natural Order, meaning how things would have turned out on their own vs Titan Order, where the titans go around and force planets into a unnatural state of order.
That’s how I read it anyway
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I get the Primalists’ issue with the surface of the planet, reigning the elementals in and such. But titan blood is arcane by nature anyway, so why would the keepers even need to infuse order into it? Order and arcane are the same thing.
Plus ley lines are naturally occurring too, even on worlds without souls. So Raszageth aiming to destroy Azure Span’s is weird. I guess she could just hate arcane that much, but it still doesn’t answer why the titans needed to put arcane into water that was already arcane.
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The Well of Eternity and Azerite are presumably Arcane BECAUSE of the Titans reshaping Azeroth in the distant past.
A Titan’s alignment is connected to their planet’s alignment. Which is why the Titans did all that terraforming in the first place, and why everyone else is always trying to conquer it.
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The Well of Eternity was formed before they did any of the ordering, it was formed when they killed Y’shaarj. Titans are the arcane pantheon, arcane is a part of them, that’s why their blood is it.
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Chronicle page 37 says that the Titan Keepers used their Magics to stabilize the Wound of the World Soul so that it would not blow up the Planet.
They turned the Wound from Azerite to Pure Arcane Energy.
Regardless the World Soul and it’s Azerite should be Order Magic regardless of whether or not it’s of the Arcane Spell School unless the Old Gods had already corrupted it to the point where the Primalists think that Order is an abomination!
I’m just disappointed to hear that they’re still hammering the cosmic chart at us. I’d hoped we might have a break from that darn thing for one expansion.
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Order is an outer cosmic force, it is on team Structure & Stability alongside Light and Death. Beings of magic which are of Order cannot help themselves but want to structure things. They are balanced by team Change & Evolution: Life, Chaos, and Void. It does not appear any of the cosmic forces are really technically SUPPOSED to be directly mucking about the mortal plane, if they had kept to the script they were given by the Progenitors.
Anyways, due to the presence of our world soul the elemental forces of Azeroth are naturally unbalanced in a way that causes them to all rampage, with no one force overwhelming the others such as what happened on Draenor with the element of Spirit. If the Titans had just curbstomped the Black Empire and left the Primalists would have no quarrel, but of course they didn’t. They couldn’t. Azeroth was too… messy. They had to attempt to bring their vision of perfection to it, and set up infrastructure to slowly see that to come to pass before leaving. The primalists want to tear all that Titanic infrastructure down and set things back to how they should of been, before the Old Gods came.
As for the boss quote… I have a pet theory that world souls are actually raw elemental potential—They could become anything, or nothing and sleep eternally. All of the cosmic forces scour the cosmos for them, with the goal of getting there first and turning them into a champion/member of their pantheon. The Titans have been pumping Azeroth full of Order Magic for a very, very ,very long time now via the various forges, With only the nascent old god infestation to counterbalance their end goal of Titan-ifying the world soul.
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Either they forgot about that when writing the Dungeon Entry
OR
There’s more to it that we’re unaware of, especially that one draenei Primalist before the final boss goes and implies we don’t know what Tyr did in those halls. To be honest, all of the Primalists so far have been suggesting the Titans did something we’re unaware of, not sure if the dragons are unaware either or they’re just not telling us.
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Considering we have Odyn talking about not letting the mortals know about the advancements of the Black Empire, only giving us the “bad” info, I am certainly suspicious of the Titans- not thinking they are evil but not any kind of Big Good.
Then again we got to see the Black Empire recently and it was definitely creepy and as bad as we had heard so… IDK.
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Even still, they had to contain the Old Gods and their servants the Elementals regardless.
They could of simply defeated the old gods, wiped out their creations and the black empire and then set the Elementals free to rebuild their empires and rampage again, in theory… but that was never really an option. It is anathema to how Order operates. Beings of Order crave structure.
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But they couldn’t because of a couple reasons.
- The Old Gods couldn’t be killed due to having burrowed into Azeroth. They tried with Y’Shaarj and it almost killed the planet.
- The Old Gods constantly spawned servants from their flesh, the Qiraji. This is how they beat the Elementals originally.
- A lot of the Elementals were seemingly supportive of them after they were first defeated. We see Ragnaros and Thunderaan helping their forces after 10,000 years.
Basically following this plan, the Old Gods would just reconquer everything. The only reason they were defeated in the first place is by imprisoning them.
I mean, they could of simply destroyed them and let new elemental lords form as that is how planar beings operate, but that lore didn’t exist back then so we have this awkward misalignment issue in old lore and new lore team perspectives.
I think a lot hinges on whether Azeroth has its own sources of capital-O Order (as well as other cosmic forces) or whether it was entirely imported, shaped, and forced onto the planet by the Titans while the only naturally-occurring magic is elemental magic.
Personally, I’m partial to the idea of Azeroth as a conflux of external cosmic forces: a case where the Titans, Old Gods, etc are trying to boost the influence of their own associated power, but aren’t the initial source of that power, and Razsageth and the Primals are trying to restore the primordial status quo between those powers (where order - and other forces like fel or void - were vastly outmatched by elemental power). I think that scenario would give the most dimensions to the conflict.
I do wish they’d use the word Arcane rather than Order in character dialogue, though. It sounds more like a fantasy world if it uses its own name for things. (So I like how the order-infused resources are called “Titan-touched [herb/ore]” rather than “Ordered [herb/ore]” and I want that convention to be more present in dialogue, too.)
I don’t feel like that solves most of the problems involved. Lets assume they knew they could kill them in the planes and they’d reform into different Elementals. They still have to imprison the Old Gods, so at least some Titan buildings. Do they just hope the new Elementals don’t get defeated unlike before or decide to not join the Old Gods?
The reality is:
Since shadowlands and now with dragonflight no one knows what azeroth really is, it can be a titan, it can be a source of raw power to conquer all other forces or it can be something related to the first ones.
Blizzard probably saw that defining azeroth as a titan was a mistake and they turned the planet into a mistery once more.
And it will probably stay that way for the foreseeable future.
The only certainty we have is that every cosmic force want what is inside OUR planet.
Nothing else in the universe is comparable to what azeroth has.
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This was clearly established in Chronicle. However, there have been hints that it’s being retconned in some way. Either way something wonky is going on.
Some planets were seeded with titan world-souls in the beginning of the universe, right after the primordial cataclysm caused by clashing Light and Void (Warcraft’s version of the big bang).
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The Arcane is the most corruptive force of all of them.
Bold claim, some might think, but, here is the thing. Everyone KNOWS what they are getting into with the Fel, with Necromancy. If you are a moral person pursuing those school, you are going to take steps to limit the corruption.
For most, there does not -seem- to be a need to do that with the Arcane. Unlike other forces, the more power one can acquire with the Arcane, the better. The lure of power corrupts more than anything else, and that leads people to dip their toes into the Fel and Necromancy for completely selfish reasons rather than the -right- reasons.
Medivh, Kel’thuzzad, Kael’thas, Illidan, Azshara were all mages.
The Kaldorei were -RIGHT- to ban it’s practice.
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I do not really think any one of the outer cosmic forces is more corrupting than any other force, they are all bad in excess, and likely are not really supposed to be mucking about here in the inner plane where we mortals live.
I think Azerothians have a somewhat warped view of Order as being always benevolent because the Titans and their creations have usually been our allies. Most Azerothian races were born of their creations, their civilizations created due to their influence as Order by it’s nature is a civilization building force. As it turns out it seems the titanforged have a history of covering up any contradictory evidence to their benevolence in general.
It is a similar, though slightly different issue with both the Light, and Life (to a degree).
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