But now you’re just talking DPS/HPS requirements which can be tuned to be as hard in 20 mans as in 40 mans.
Since Naxx was brought up which, virtually all the fights are the same in all 3 difficulties mechanics wise. The only difference is tuning, which means that the 10 and 25 mans would easily be brought up to Naxx 40 difficulty without any real changes.
I mean raiding in general in classic hasn’t been epic in 20-years.
For myself it’s sad to see that they are pushing larger raid sizes for the sake of nostalgia… I wish they’d treat SoD, like SoD and not era.
Meh. The SoM 40 man version of MC is untested by the masses cus we were all either playing TBC/SL/Or New World
People told me you can ignore almost all the mechanics in the wotlk versions and they are braindead easy compared to the vanilla one.
he can advocate for his preferences.
edit: yes, wotlk Naxxramas was severely undertuned. it was the second worst tier of all time, only behind ToC.
Most of the bosses in MC/BWL are Trash mobs
That’s just like, your opinion man. If you ask me the most epic a raid has ever felt was progressing Ulduar 10man Hard at a the time all the most serious guilds were all doing 25 so myself and my shaman friend just had to throw everything at the wall and see what stuck 2 healing Mimiron. - No amount of extra players that barely have to be conscious at their keyboard can ever compete with the satisfaction of viscerally feeling the individual impact of myself and 9 other people I know well coming together to overcome challenge
And in that sense the trash mobs are bosses, which is my point - everything in the raid is at least a little bit dangerous.
I agree this is def epic and fun. But vanilla raids aren’t hard modes, they are all pretty easy - what makes them epic is that a huge crowd of people is going after the bosses.
Easy bosses + weak trash + few people = zero chance of epic feeling
Easy bosses + dangerous trash + tons of people = pretty epic feeling
Nothing is especially epic about 20 man raiding, its just 40 man raiding sucks. Sure it “looks cool” to have that many people until you realize half of them cant do a 2 button rotation and you have to compete with 15 people on every single ring,trinket and weapon upgrade.
Ahh new world.
Fun two weeks until it died.
Who’s ready for world bosses that drop loot for anyone who tages it wooo SOD
Is Onyxia not 40-man?
40mans are terrible design and give bad feedback. Anyone who’s hosted and organized 40mans have the best opinions on them and would more than likely all agree F 40mans. Even most non host would likely agree. I think only ERA players hate this change. Down sizing it will also make it overall more enjoyable and have better loot distribution and make it more challenging instead of afking for hours
So, according to OP, a 40-man raid just standing still hitting a dragon with no mechanics whatsoever besides “don’t stack on the tank” and “don’t stand behind it” for 5 minutes is epic, but a 20-man raid running all around the arena managing several mechanics at a time that can be stuff like preventing room-wiping explosions, or maximizing terrain accessibility, or CCing a mind control to prevent killing raid members is dull and uninteresting
I wonder if they also thinking watching paint dry on an entire wall is more interesting than watching someone draw a work of art on a small tablet
Yeah it is, though a lot of people bring less than 40 (like 20 or 25 ppl is fine), whereas while you can do other raids with under 40 it is pretty rare to see them setup that way on purpose.
Loot being rare is a feature. The more common loot is the less valuable it is.
No PvE encounter will ever be really difficult - they are always tuned to be completed, that’s the nature of PvE.
I don’t mind running around and doing stuff I just don’t think it makes an encounter epic. I don’t mind if we make 40 people run around and do stuff and only 1% of the population clears the content - that would be good design in my view. It would be epic and the few that complete it would have done something a little more worthy.
What I care about is that the pve content at the very least feels epic.
If you want to test your skills, top tier pvp is the only place to do it in this game.
Nah im a 10 man enjoyer. I like to actually know the people i raid with rather than just be their business associate In WoWs history, 10 mans have been tuned harder than 20 mans and 20 mans culled a lot of bads out of raids.
Simple solution, flex raids. They already have the tech. You want 40 great, you want 20 great! Run with who you want to run with.
flex would actually be the best solution to this vast disagreement between 40/20mans debates. what i find absolutely comical is if they were to implement flex raids i would bet my entire life that via data/WCL would show that 90%+ of any raid ran would show in favor of 20man flex > 40man flex. 40man flex would be near completely dead lol.
Apparently not within Classic:
I question if that is a can’t or a won’t.
I would say a “can’t*”, with the asterisk suggesting turning your focus toward “cannot currently exist in Original WoW.”
The post mentions difficulty, feasibility, theoretical probability of what can and can’t be done within the season; in this instance, things like cutting 40-man raids down to 20-man. That having been said, a TBC server has existed for ages that not only converted and refitted all TBC content around 5-man level 70 groups(with it actually being pretty decently balanced, from what I’ve seen), but has converted and refitted a good deal of vanilla content, of varying original group size, to work perfectly fine for a 5-man level 70 group. This was done by a small handful of people, as well.
This goes to show it’s by no means impossible to shrink a 40-man down to even a 5-man, let alone a 20-man. The issue that lies herein is that SoD has a time table, a budget, and a specific amount of devs(that may not exactly be the “A” team). If it takes them the entirety of P1 to fix a warrior’s Deep Wounds to function as the original version instead of the Wrath version, then yes, I see coding something like flex raiding into the game as being completely unfeasible for SoD. Classic+, maybe, but SoD, highly unlikely.