A dungeon can be slow and steady but it shouldn’t take an hour to complete.
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I don’t think it is such an issue of “not having to be obligated to do a timed run”, because technically you can do the run ANYWAYS, without bothering about the timer. What I was getting at here is, they should have different options.
Say for example different dungeon modes.
- Timed run, where obviously you beat the timer, which we already have.
- A version without the timer, but everything is scaled a bit harder and possibly more enemies. The reasoning behind this to be that you have to plan out your attack, possibly CC enemies, and use strategy to progress, instead of just finding a way to get by as quickly as possible.
- Utilize the affixes in more interesting ways in non-timed runs. For example, an elite mob which continuously summons small adds until you manage to plow through them and take him out to stop the wave, or possibly adds that come back as ghosts which follow you and constantly pester you by hitting you, CC’ing you, or interrupting your spells for the rest of the run.
The general idea here being, to add more challenging angles to the dungeon runs, as opposed to the only actual challenge being “beat the timer”. That’s what I was my suggestion.
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But in SL if you don’t beat the timer you get no loot.
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I’ll try and be as clear as possible here.
Among the general player base, even casuals, the mindset is to go quick, no breaks unless needed, pull lots, cleave down, etc. Totally fine, however a large portion of the player base also would enjoy a dungeon system that encourages a slower pace.
Beating the timer is rewarded and thus has turned the system into a race against the clock mentality.
I think the idea of a mythic+ option without the clock function would be welcomed for those who don’t want to worry about their dps, spec, way around the dungeon, etc feel more welcomed and relaxed to still challenge difficult content.
Taking away the clock could come with a small tuning on difficulty scaling a little tougher than regular mythics, such then requiring proper cc, positioning, mechanics and welcome the idea of taking your time, strategy and such.
The clock can just end up making a lot of people discouraged from entering mythic dungeons where they enjoy the challenge but prefer the slow and steady, careful approach and not the ‘optimal route’ strategy. I know that can exist with a group of friends all on the same page but for pugs often the idea is the latter and it’s just a gameplay style that isn’t as fun as the first.
TL;DR — Community perception of mythic+ is that optimal speed across the board is needed. I personally believe a version without the timer and instead a higher tuned difficulty would be welcomed by a lot of people who don’t enjoy the gameplay aspect of speeding through content for rewards that benefit their character’s power.
I hope that makes sense.
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I mean, most people get their +15 for the week done in a completion key anyway where they dont care if it depletes, that’s kind of the same thing
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The worst was spending ten minutes trying to jump up the small cliff in Everbloom to skip a trash pack that would have taken 20 seconds to thrash.
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how on earth does it take you ten minutes to press spacebar 4 times
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It’s this exact mentality that people think is the mindset of everyone else out there. You don’t need to feel bad for me. I would happily tackle a 30 minute dungeon, or more if needed, if I was paired with like-minded players who didn’t feel compelled to rush through it.
I cannot disagree more that the ‘go go go’ speed run mentality is in my head when it’s preferred we skip packs of mobs when possible as it’s a hindrance.
(And that’s fine and makes sense for the system) but not everyone wants to be in that mentality. Be open to that or not, but it exists.
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But this is what you have to do in current iterations of M+. Like… speed is a factor, sure, but it’s speed that leads to unique and interesting strategies.
If you’re not CCing and being creative, you’re either playing wrong or pushing low keys.
Just give us loot for killing stuff. Who cares how long it takes.
Doing the dungeon fast is its own reward - you can do more dungeons while those other scrubs are still slogging through their first run! Those noobs!
At best there should be achievements for speed runs, and maybe, rarely, some cool cosmetic rewards… but having standard, weekly progression be tied to speed runs is bad design.
That’s because I don’t have all day and the last thing I want to do is waste an hour doing content that’s easy, but the mobs take too long to kill.
This is already necessary in the timed version. CC’s, positioning, and mechanics are all vitally important to succeed in higher keys.
that’s what Mythic 0 is for. You feel like you’re being rushed in keys?
You do understand I’m not asking to redesign mythic+ ?
I said as an option for some players, perhaps a higher difficulty tuning without a timer could be fun. In no way shape or form do you need to participate in it or have the current iteration changed.
It seems I inevitable triggered people with a suggestion to welcome some players to playing more challenging content in a way that wouldn’t hurt or affect anyone else but everyone’s touchy on these forums lol.
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A few dungeons have tight timers, but most are more than manageable if your group has even baseline knowledge of mechanics.
nobody’s triggered, what you’re suggesting just already exists. it’s called depleting the key. you still get a chest at the end. this isnt 7.0 where failing a key awarded no loot and destroyed your keystone for the week, m+ is very friendly and available to all levels of play.
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I’m not a fan of timers but I’m also not a fan of long (>15m) dungeons, M+ is amusingly both 
so I just stay out of them.
Everyone wants to be Sonic the Hedgehog these days.
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How do you hold two completely dichotomous thoughts?
You acknowledge the mindset of the playerbase is to go quick, but then claim there’s a large portion of the player base that doesn’t want to go quick? Well which one is it?
This is you trying to create an imaginary crowd behind yourself. If people did want what you wanted, you would have no problem getting depleted timer runs all the time, but I’m guessing you do find people get annoyed with this, because they just want to get the dungeons done. So now you’re pretending your personal preference is ubiquitous when it isn’t.
Here’s the part I REALLY don’t understand, you want to remove the timer, but tune the mobs even harder than they are now? What makes you think someone who can’t handle killing mobs in a slightly rapid manner (m+ timers are not restrictive until you are getting into the +18 range at least) but they would welcome the chance to fight mobs that are even tougher than what you see in timed mythic+? Where are you finding these magical players who can do more damage but want to go slow? It would seems by doing the additional damage required to clear these even tougher mobs these players would naturally breeze through m+ quickly and efficiently, so why would they choose to go slow intentionally? Nostalgia? Or are you proposing these people would enjoy having to wait for 3 min cooldowns before each pull?
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The difference in this is that, however, many players want their rewards for the speed they make it in. If the proper cc isn’t made, as an example, and the group wipes once or twice, a lot of perception is if the timer isn’t hit then the frustration and leaving the group begins. It can create a blaming environment and not a helpful, encouraging one.
In a separate m+ system designed for making it through the dungeon I think people would know exactly what they’re asking for, and that it might take a bit longer but that go go go mentality isn’t present due to no timer reward. I imagine it wouldn’t be as popular with the player base but a lot of people who enjoy the slower pace of completing the dungeon would enjoy.
And again, as I feel the need to treat myself, this would be another version of M+ (Not redesigning the current or taking that version away from those who prefer it).
That’s the confusing part for me.
Any group that’s doing the thing OP wants (careful positioning, CCs, etc.) is going to have no trouble breezing through the dungeons already.