Your idea of pulling smartly and using cc is polymorphing a dangerous mob and then pulling 3 enemies at a time because more is deadly.
The cc used currently is far more skillful as it requires mob interrupts on dangerous casts and things like actual usage of cc in encounters like purge and aoe stunning to interrupt etc. I would also argue that knowing how big you can pull and how many mobs you can handle is pulling smartly.
Classic exists, and you can find that type of playstyle there.
We’ve gotten 1 of each in the last 2 expansions. People always cry, ask them to be chopped up and put on the queue for some reason.
This is just incorrect. Subscriber growth stopped as soon as Wrath was released. Here’s a graph.
`https://www.techspot.com/images2/news/bigimage/2015/08/wow-subscriptions-historical-2005-2015.png
Subscribership grew in Vanilla and BC, was flat in Wrath, and fell thereafter.
No, thats what m+ has taught you. You might cc a ranged/caster or something that runs away. CC is complete control of a pack. Its a tank using ranged and los pulling, its dps not blowing things up before the tank has them in place, Its also having downtime in between pulls, planning something or stopping for mana regen. Its knowing what you can and cant do without a big clock dictating that for you, while still being able to progress at higher levels.
M+ in its current form does not offer anything like this because you have a big clock ticking down in front of you, causing you to always feel pressure - even if that pressure is false. Its chain stunning things so your tank doesnt insta die, its pulling 2-3 packs at once and blowing them up before they can deal enough damage to cast.
Even if someone wanted to break into m+ clearing at their own place, there arent other people that will join because they have the go go go mindset implanted into them from the get go.
This is variable, it applies both to what I said and what you said. Yeah you cc a ranged mob when you polymorph them, but you also cc them when you just interrupt their important cast while killing them.
Is this a reference to threat? Position doesn’t matter. At all. Unless you are snapping.
Mana regen is a bit outdated. Planning something in higher mythic+ is usually done before the dungeon. And even in classic my brain isn’t small enough that I need to plan prior to every pack. And downtime doesn’t necessarily mean difficult decisions or a challenging pull.
In what way is it false? I just have to do the dungeon and kill a certain amount of mobs in a certain amount of time. Without the timer then the competitive integrity of the system is ruined because people could just push higher keys by waiting for lust every pull.
Not sure what mythic+ you are doing, but was your tank in tank spec? Or your healer in heal spec? Its possible to do a +26 without a healer and I guarantee the mobs weren’t being cc’d till they died and the tank wasn’t getting instakilled. If you doubt me I will link the video.
No, its blowing them up while ccing them when necessary, riot shield, bulwark of juju, those require stuns to interrupt or you are in for a bad time. Demoralizing shout, tidal surge, protective shield. Those require interrupts. Or if you fail, they require a purge.
You might not agree with it, but faster does not mean it is automatically less methodical or skillful. In fact it is likely far more skillful than anything you could find in classic. You are merely trying to debase the notion by simplifying it to a term like “go go go mentality”.
Just look at Classic. AQ40 was cleared within like an hour of it actually being available.
Like someone said, people don’t want to roleplay trivial content as being hard.
You are not going to kill them in time in higher keys, people actually have to use their whole toolkit on those big pulls to chain cc(any and all forms of it) to control the mobs or the tank even has to kite them while the rest of the group controls them.
This is and always will be harder than the old Vanilla/BC method of hard cc’ing 3 mobs and killing them 1 at a time.
I think it’s more what Shattered Halls speed runs in TBC taught him my dude.
M+ didn’t invent anything.
If Classic BC comes out, and people stomp the content just as hard as they stomped Vanilla content when it comes out, I wonder what the excuses will be then.
I hope Prot Paladins finally get their chance to shine in a Classic TBC. The toolkit was definately there, the only thing holding back mass AoE tanking being the leftover stigma from Vanilla back in the day.
With that stigma dead, Prot Paladin will likely be the meta dungeon tank, a solid raid tank especially for things like Tempest Keep trash and Hyjal.
You gotta become the pace car.
Mythic+ are timed because actually designing challenging encounters is hard and they don’t want to spend resources on it. That’s the only reason why they just added scaling damage and a timer instead of actually challenge.
It doesn’t matter how hard you make the actual encounters if they’re rendered completely irrelevant after the first month of an expansion.
That’s why “hard” dungeons don’t exist anymore.
Exactly - except that the pressure is true. CC takes time not just for setup but because you can’t cleave things that have long term CC, so you don’t do it. The timer forces you to focus on DPS, and forces many specs - mostly ranged DPS - to ignore much of their kit because their kit is about careful use of skill rather than rushed maximum DPS.
The rushed, sloppy style of play isn’t just a mindset; unfortunately, it’s the correct style of play for this style of timed content.
Indeed. A huge area of player skill - removed from M+.
Exactly. The content isn’t actually dangerous.
Not automatically, no. The way the M+ dungeons are set up, though, it does.
What if I told you, interrupt, stunts, silence are a from of cc and if you dont use them correctly you will fail the key. Even hard cc should be used as interupts of sort.
When you pull 2-3 packs you are forced to coordinate your cc, not just mindlessly aoe.
Even if you only pull 1 pack, a lot of pulls have 2-3 mobs that need to be controlled and it will always be harder to do in while they are actually casting than just doing 2 hard cc and killing them 1 at a time.
I would point out that I already covered that by not saying “all specs”. One of the reasons M+ is so biased toward melee DPS is because melee DPS has those things on short cooldowns, while ranged DPS specs are designed differently and can’t be used to full effectiveness due to the timer.
Except for the fact that the whole element of positioning is removed, so in fact it’s easier.
Almost all range bring some sort of cc, interrupts is not the only one. Tell me, what range is lacking cc? Take into account that dispels are also a strong utility and can nullify a lot of nasty mobs.
Only in shrine of the storm you need 2 melee dps, other than that is not a huge deal to only bring 1.
That is a new one, I never seen anyone say positioning mobs is hard, is just something any decent tank does if needed.
The problem is, it’s not supposed to be rushed, nor sloppy.
When it is, is when you increase your risk of failure.
dude is wrong. positioning is hugely important. You have to know what mobs cleave, you have to know when mobs have placed an immunity on the ground, you have to know where your party is so when you do have to move, you aren’t going to cleave them down with the mobs, etc.
This.
it’s not hard.
it’s just part of being a good tank.
I am gonna pull everything
YEAAAAAAHHHHH!!
That happened^ , I blame Crendor
And yet every timed 32, and every timed 31, uses 2 melee DPS.
Meanwhile, 2 ranged comps do have the highest completions, at 31, in a couple of dungeons - but they are way over time.
As I said, the timer caters to melee DPS; ranged are designed for a more deliberate, more careful style of play, and don’t do as well with the timer.
It’s not hard in an absolute sense; it’s just not as easy as hitting a button when you see the relevant cast.
The fact that you think it’s only a tank job shows how much it’s been simplified in M+.
