What would you have done in Jaina's place?

Well, I’m blessed with the meta knowledge that collective punishment is a war crime, so even if I were delusionally convinced that every other Sunreaver was out to get me, I’d probably go with Gavik’s response.

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Yet Jaina wasn’t tried in the novel literally called “War Crimes”? Why?

I thought so, too, but that’s why I think the previous Alliance quest with Jaina (https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/The_Fate_of_Dalaran) provides a good view into her underlying motivations: Jaina had managed to put aside her hatred of Garrosh and his Horde to advocate for the Sunreavers, because she believed they were committed to making Dalaran this shining beacon of peace and neutrality in this war-torn world - so when she saw that this was a Sunreaver portal* that had been conjured to get around the wards on the Divine Bell** and deliver this fantasy nuke right into Garrosh’s hands (no doubt reminding her of the other fantasy nuke that Garrosh had used to obliterate Theramore, also done using a Sunreaver spy)… that’s what pushed her over the edge.

In that sort of half-mad emotional reaction, I feel it makes enough sense that Jaina is wavering between expelling them or wiping them out - she’s teleporting all the cowering ones to prison, but has a very low bar for ‘resisting’ by which she’ll justify killing them outright.

At least, I feel like the Alliance chain sets up that narrative pretty well.

*There isn’t really any objective evidence for us players to dissect - Jaina apparently recognizes the portal on sight as specifically a Sunreaver portal, but the mages who conjured it in the Horde player’s quest were not labelled as Suneravers. Were they former Sunreavers who’d left the organization but kept their magic-clearance-equivalent? Horde/Garrrosh spies who were still currently pretending to be Sunreavers, but who weren’t in-disguise (nameplate-wise) at that moment? Completely unaffiliated with the Sunreavers but still had access to the Sunreaver’s Dalaran portal signatures? Hopefully the next Chronicles will specify, because there’s good story angles that can be taken with either option.

**Jaina was present for the Alliance-side meeting where the Alliance leaders commit to never using the Divine Bell and just locking it up instead, so she has good reason to view it as safely inactive under their care (and not as not safe if Garrosh has access to it). The Horde, however, is perfectly justified in not believing this to be neutral, in my opinion.

I think this makes sense in the context of the Alliance player’s quest chain, as that shows that Varian was specifically asking Jaina to expel the Sunreavers and bring the city into the Alliance. Jaina refused at the time (because she believed the Sunreavers were a shining example of Horde members who were committed to the city’s neutrality), so this later event is her throwing the request back at Varian when he showed disapproval.

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Probably a case of “too many cooks, too many drafts.”

For another example of incoherence in the Purge storyline, there’s the fact that the writers can’t decide whether Jaina or Vereesa is supposed to be the more hardcore.

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I would probably talk about more then 1 or 3 lore events that happened around 10 years ago

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As for what I would have done in Jaina’s place…

The triggering issue was that some Sunreaver(s) (or person(s) with Sunreaver permissions within Dalaran) had used Dalaran’s portal system to steal a fantasy nuke and deliver it to Garrosh. So my immediate reaction would be to lock down all teleportation magic though Dalaran - no idea how much of an imposition on the city’s day-to-day function would be, though.

I might even do something similar to locking down the avenues for leaving the city - setting up checkpoints to clear those leaving, and detaining those who could possibly be the person or persons capable of conjuring the portal in question. Which, once again, I have no idea how easy or difficult, quick or time-consuming, it is in-setting to detect if an individual has the magical capability and special-Dalaran-permissions for creating that kind of portal. So no idea if this net would involve incarcerating as many people as Jaina ended up doing, or for how long.

Then it’d probably be a more straightforward investigation - eliminate those with confirmable alibis for why they couldn’t be the one who conjured that portal, and hope there’s some kind of magic-based analysis to use on the rest to rule people out. Without a perfect system, this could leave multiple innocent suspects detained for who knows how long while the investigation is ongoing - and with meta knowledge that the casters in question were not physically in Dalaran when conjuring that portal, there may or may not even be evidence that will clear the suspects nor any Dalaran witnesses to lead the investigation to the real culprits, so this investigation has a high chance to stall. They might end up detained until Garrosh’s downfall reveals some new evidence about the real culprits - or if no evidence is found, it at least lowers the stakes, so that even if the Dalaran authorities still suspect them, they can simply banish the remaining suspects from Dalaran and feel fairly secure that such actions won’t be aiding Garrosh’s war effort anymore. Such banishment wouldn’t be fair to the suspects, but as a last resort it’s probably better than permanent incarceration or death.

Even if all the magical detections could be done and this could be handled in a reasonable timeframe, I still expect it wouldn’t go smoothly - the blood elves have good reason to be distrustful of getting thrown in Dalaran prisons for an alleged crime (cough Garithos and Kael’thas cough), so there’d probably be plenty Sunreavers who’d resist no matter how politely, orderly, and quickly this was done, and plenty of anger and suspicion from Silvermoon.

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The reasonable thing someone would do in her place would be to hold proper investigation and trials.

Now would I be reasonable in her shoes? I’m not so sure tbh, I dont know if I’m that mentally tough for that. Being outside the story makes it look easy.

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To clarify OP, are you asking how I would respond personally right now or are you asking if I would have done what Jaina did after experiencing what she did during and after the mana bomb attack on Theramore?

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Lets be honest, most people wouldn’t even get to Dalaran. Most people would probably have drowned Ogrimmar.

I remember the change was so blunt and noticeable that people started speculate over if she was the real Jaina or a Dreadlord.

I use to like the old Jaina better always advocating for peace… I guess she was substituted by Anduin, now we will see how Anduin changes in this World Saga… hopeful this time they don’t create this type controversy to develop Anduin.

I guess we will see if Chronicles actually talks about this… because I don’t think Jaina can even set foot on Zandalari Empire no matter if there is peace or the Dalaran Purge gets resolve… specially how that raid scene ended.

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This.

Do explain how you could have possibly dealt with the Sunreavers in time before Garrosh got his new WMD. :slight_smile:

I’d assume most people wouldn’t have launched attacks on the Tauren immediately after finding out the Tauren are pissed at Garrosh and lost their leader over trying to avert the oncoming war, but I’m not a sociopath who loves killing so what do I know?

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The Purge of Dalaran didn’t do anything to prevent Garrosh from getting the Bell, since it happened after he’d already gotten it. Nor did it in any way prevent him from using it.

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Yeah, it was a largely irrelevant event where a bunch of elves got arrested, which is why I don’t think it will even be mentioned at all in Chronicles IV. :slight_smile:

The purge of Dalaran was a wrong move by jaina, but a move that was totally in character for her to do so considering her mental state.

Like geez, do we need another thread to talk how right or wrong she was? Cant we talk about how amazing the Hidden master teaching you to punch a Giant mantid from the inside is instead?

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I think it would be hilarious if it’s not, after all the confident predictions about what Chronicles IV will say.

I’ve just been doing the Pandaria remix, and I really enjoyed revisiting the Hidden Master quests. Glad to hear he’s making another appearance.

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Do explain how you could have possibly dealt with the Sunreavers in time before Garrosh got his new WMD. :slight_smile:

Except the Purge of Dalaran happened, as Zuleika just said – after Garrosh claimed the Divine Bell. Also,

honestly calling the Divine Bell a WMD.

Topkek.

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Remix made me finally experience more pandaria zones, the hidden master is the perfect monk questline, yet it isnt a monk questline. And to be clear, he didnt show up in anything new, i was talking about pandaria, since the purge is also pandaria content.

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Reasonable person would do proper investigation before jumping to conclusion.
Cairne jumped to a conclusion and challenged Garrosh to death duel. No matter how well intended, he did wrong.

But personally I have no issues with Jaina going rogue, it was a good drama. something was going on the Alliance. I had issue with her toning it down and then acting all sad and mopey “I’m a good girl dee down”. I’d love if her constant escalations and abuse of power would lead her to death in raid.

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Yeah, it was a largely irrelevant event where a bunch of elves got arrested, which is why I don’t think it will even be mentioned at all in Chronicles IV. :slight_smile:

The event that sealed the Blood Elves being in the Horde by stopping Varian’s negotiations with Lor’themar Theron after innocent Sunreavers were either butchered in the streets or wrongfully imprisoned by the Silver Covenant & Jaina Proudmoore was a largely irrelevant event…

The event that was referenced all the way in Battle for Azeroth is a largely irrelevant event. Sure.

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