AU =/= MU.
MU Orcs didn’t have a blood fury until they drank Mannoroth’s blood.
It was MARAAD talking about MU orcs.
@Navuoka, sigh resorting to youtube video. Juvenile.
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I wouldn’t say so, no. They’ve gone to war when they thought they should, as most groups do. Mostly when necessary.
Pre-Horde Orcs is the precise topic of the conversation. Whether or not they could be described as peaceful. That you contested that pre-Horde description.
Animalistic and war-like are worlds between each other. In the same way being able to go to war isn’t the same as being hyper aggressive. And being able to betray someone isn’t the same as saying someone will necessarily betray.
Well, the way you approach conversations is historically very thoughtfully disingenuous. So I don’t know if you truly believe that or are just saying it to seem like you believe it for the sake of presentation.
HOW WOULD HE KNOW?
Ask Blizzard, regardless that is what the entire lord of war video is about. Knowledge about MU orcs. They had not even crossed AU Draenor by that point in the story. My guess, the draenei heard stories about the orcs from people who traded with them.
And they have gone to war when they shouldn’t, hence the whole Grom Lord of War video.
Again, peaceful toward each other maybe, even then disputes between clans and each other were usually resolved though violence, hence the Mak’gora.
The tendency to betray/be warlike seemed like it was fairly dependent on your kingdom/clan.
You believe it is disingenuous, I don’t.
That’s not ‘going to war’, just one clan fighting out of a dozen or so. And again, the Ogres were enslaving them. So saying they shouldn’t have fought seems strange.
Peaceful towards themselves and others. I believe you recognize the concept of self-defense (as noted before). The Gorians were enslaving Orcs and nearly destroyed the world by meddling with the Throne of Elements. The Botani were trying to ensure the Overgrowth took over the planet (which would have drained it dry eventually). And the Mak’gora is not proof of being war-like.
It seemed entirely independent of that.
That should be very clear, yes. But you’re the one who has admitted to being fine arguing disingenuously.
Better than keep arguing about a fanboy’s headcanon ![:smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smile.png?v=6" ":smile:")
Right back at you cowboy.
From how the lords of war painted it they were doing much more than simply fighting back. From the looks of it they were becoming as much the aggressors.
The orcs have always had a warrior culture. That is kinda the point. Whenever war did occur many of them seem to have a hard time knowing when to stop. Hell, the Thunderlord slaughter ogre YOUNG AND OLD alike when they fought.
So you’re telling me that the Unreliable Narrator who was not there to witness the events he describes in vivid detail is more reliable than Word of God?
Except the Lord of War video are canon and Blizzard has never said anything contrary to it. The Lord of War video are just as much Word of God as anything else.
Yes, one clan out of a dozen or so probably went a bit too far fighting against people who were enslaving them. That doesn’t make them war-like.
Nor more or less of a warrior culture than Humans, Night Elves, or High Elves. They had warriors, certainly. There were also much more than that. Shamans, priests/mystics, so on.
The Alliance nation’s hotly debated executing an entire race. Daelin led his nation to try and exterminate the Orcs to the last man, woman, and child in spite of his ally’s wishes. The High Elves and humans hunted the Trolls like game (not even my words) after the Troll wars. A lot of Draenei joined the Burning Legion’s quest to wipe out the population of planets. Wouldn’t call these races war-like. Having a hard time knowing when to stop isn’t the same as being war-like anyway.
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They’re canon in that Maraad is telling a story.
False. I linked Word of God evidence that trumps Lord of War.
Keep in mind the in-game continent isnt an accurate representation of how big it is in lore.
Shattrath was built in the ruins of the old Gorian capital (which the ogres tried to retake, but only once.) Remember Blizz spent a ton of time developing our garrisons, so alot of areas, a raid (perhaps two) and storylines were left out. Heck they even left ogre island out. And the only indication we have that it existed was some brief teases.
It says that, but what we see says otherwise.
I see you haven’t met any female orcs.
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Usha Eyegouge listens to ALOT of Slipknot.
Unless you want to completely gut the whole culture of the Frostwolf clan (Which is all about self control, living one with nature rather than dominating it, and not succumbing to their bloodlust), and completely disregard why Durotan wears the pelt of his Frostwolf, then we have to accept that the orcs had the Blood Rage long before they ever drank the demon blood.
The only time this concept has ever been brought up is in the story told by the Unreliable Narrator, Maraad.
Word of God says that the Orcs were peaceful. It is fact. Maraad was wrong. He was retelling a story he was told, or he was flat out lying to try to convince Varian to go to war by saying that “not even the Frostwolves are wholly innocent.”
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Peaceful you say?
Draka was born sickly and weak, a condition that would have her drowned in a river in other orc clans. Source: A Warrior Made.
Warsong clan (The name Warsong does not imply peace): Roughly 800 years before the First War. the orcs began to migrate out of Gorgrond. The Warsong clan migrated far to the southwest, deep into Nagrand’s open prairies, where they constantly had to fight against the Gorian Empire’s ogres to maintain their presence in the region. Some generations of Warsongs thrived more than others. The clan had a taste for battle, but provoking the ogres too much could lead to disastrous consequences. Source: Chronicle Vol 2.
The Highmaul outnumbered the Warsongs, but Hellscream’s highly mobile wolf riders used hit-and-run tactics to raid ogre settlements, eventually shattering Highmaul’s hold on Nagrand and seizing much of it for themselves. They pushed the ogres back within the walls of their stronghold, and Grommash became a legend among the clans. Source: Chronicle Vol 2 (Which also corresponds to Grom’s Lord of War story. )
Bleeding Hallow Clan: Generations of surviving in a jungle beset by the remnants of the Evergrowth instilled a savage instinct into the orcs’ warfare and the Bleeding Hollow embodied the unrelenting savagery required for many long years of successful orcish warfare Source: Chroncile Vol 2. Tides of Darkness Game Manual, and Clans of the Horde.
Blackrock Clan: were known for their strict Military discipline Source: Tides of Darkness Game Manual and Clans of the Horde and Chronicle Vol 2.
By the time immediately preceding the creation of the Old Horde, the Blackrocks boasted the largest, most organized, and best equipped orcish military in the world. Source: Chronicle Vol 2.
By the time of 11 years before the First War, the orcs had crushed their brutish enemies and driven most of them from Gorgrond. Source: Chronicle Vol 2.
None of this sounds very peaceful, and I can keep going. Keep in mind, this is all ignoring any WoD content and lore (Which arguable only expands on orc culture, and provides more examples of how war-like the orcs were.)
This isn’t me saying “All orcs are bad” this is me saying that orcs had to be war-like to survive in the savage, war-torn world of Draenor. They did not have the luxury to be peaceful.
Oh, and one more thing:
The orcs can work themselves up into a natural bloodlust frenzy, a capacity that was only demonically amplified by consuming the Blood of Mannoroth
Wowpedia / Blood Fury
To ignore that the orcs suffered from Blood Fury before demonic corruption is to ignore the entire Frostwolf culture and Durotan backstory.
Maraad has proven to be a reliable narrator.
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