Thats not the book I am talking about its very clear why she wants to war in before the storm
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Genn and Sylvanas were fighting as a united force at the Broken Shore after these events. The treaty was in force after these events.
You seem to think Genn’s personal vendettas are fair cause to draw both Factions into war. Anduin did not. He rebuked Genn.
You simply stated your personal opinion that vendettas make every thing OK if you say so. The lore disputes that. Especially when my view is demonstrated in the lore. Anduin rebuked Genn, and Saurfang used Genn’s actions as good cause for the war. Even if you think he deserved a medal and a hug.
This is just nonsense. Genn chose to use the Alliance as his personal hit squad, which the High King rebuked him for. Every Alliance member killed owes Genn for making that choice, and provoking the war.
Imagine thinking its ok for sylvanas to help the legion cause shes sylvanas
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It looks like the Horde forgave Genn for attacking Sylvanas any way.
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Help me out here; I’ve seen this a few times now in this thread and have 0 clue where this comes from or its stated.
Sylvanas attacking the valks who are fighting the legion helps the legion
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I like haven’t stopped loving the horde, but i definitely don’t play it due to this expansion.
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Oh, I thought it was when she’s making deals with Helya, who is later revealed to be actively helping the Legion when she had conspired with Gul’dan to keep Illidan’s soul.
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This is a good point too
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Is that it? Like, I was expecting more of a explanation than that. The focus of Stormhiem was the Aegis that had little to do with the Valks as a whole.
That logic just seems weak and not to bring up Genn more than we already have, but isnt that exactly what he did to the Forsaken fleet? By attacking the literal army that was sent to secure the Aegis to use against the Legion he helps the Legion?
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Shes literally attacking the people that protect it, and are protecting it from the legion, and makes a deal with helya to lock those same fighters who want to fight the legion away helya is working with the legion too.
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Skovald seemed to be steps ahead of us the entire time anyway and had no problem defeating those who were sworn to protect it. Not to mention that Odin didn’t particularly care to interfere or back up these defenders of his. Not that Forsaken may be particularly more effective at defending the Aegis if they were involved, but still people with the over all same goal seem to be constantly fighting each other.
I guess I’m missing where Helya is actively working for the Legion though.
I dont mean to be dismissive of it, but I’m just not really seeing where all the dots connect.
If you mean her thoughts about attacking Stormwind, it’s not clear whether that’s the same war or a different one. Nowhere is it said that her attack on Teldrassil was part of an initiative designed to eventually end with an attack on Stormwind. In fact, in A Good War she implies that she’s willing to let all of EK go if the Horde can have all of Kalimdor.
Of course, we’re also pretty sure she’s not telling the truth in A Good War, as I mentioned above. But there would be no reason for the author to be so coy about stating her real reason for the war if it’s just to give her a chance to attack Stormwind, because that reason was already mentioned in BtS.
It’s kind of a mess, but personally I’m expecting a reveal about the reason for the war that won’t be about just attacking Stormwind because she doesn’t like them. --Note, I don’t expect the reason they eventually give to be a good one, but I think they’re holding out on us and there’s something that isn’t in any of the books.
Uhhh, no they weren’t, Genn and Lor’themar in Nazjatar were fighting as a united force, because they were actively working together. Genn and Sylvanas were nowhere near “united” and were fighting separately for the mutual defense of the world, not because there was any sort of “peace” or “unity” between them.
If only Sylvanas ever recieved such disciplinary actions from her superiors at the time. If Garrosh found out about her use of blight in Gilneas against his orders, he’d have her head. Conviniently for her, he turned into a racist, lunatic, tyrant for the Horde to mutually hate allowing her to draw both factions into an extended cold war that would eventually boil over when Sylvanas was given more influence.
You’re the one who seems to think the attack on Sylvanas in Stormheim makes the attempted genocide of an entire race OK.
The lore also very much disputes your view and, like the rest of us, it too has come to realize that Teldrassil was a bit too far.
Saurfang also realized that even Stormheim doesn’t warrant the intentional mass slaughter of civilians and Anduin has also come to the realization that Genn was right and that Sylvanas is a massive tumor within the Horde that needs to be excised in order to achieve a lasting peace between both factions.
In hindsight, he deserves far more than that. He should get a statue in Stormwinds’ Valley of Heroes, a rebuilt Gilneas made out of gold, and supreme command over the Alliance. He should now be considered a war hero and a true patriot of the Alliance for thwarting Sylvanas’s attempt to gain more power that she intended to use against them.
It’s far less nonsensical than blaming Genn and Tyrande for Teldrassils’ burning, which btw, getting revenge on him wasn’t even the reason she went after it.
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Seems Odyn’s forces are still upset about it, as see during the Vol’jin questline in BfA:
This is exactly when it should be brought up, when people complain about attacking Sylvanas during the Legion invasion when Sylvanas turned around an did the same to Eyir during the Legion invasion.
To be fair, we also stopped all other evil forces from trying to get the Pillars of Creation as well.
- While tracking the master's physical body proved challenging, we were able to locate it in the Nighthold of Suramar. Our intelligence reports that Gul'dan is making final preparations to the Nightwell in order to use its power to usher the soul of Sargeras into Illidan's body.
The only way to stop that from happening is to put Illidan’s own immortal soul back.
Take the Soul Prism of the Illidari and venture to Helheim. Defeat Helya and use the prism on Illidan’s soul!
We do not know how Illidan’s soul ended up in the underworld of Helheim, but we speculate that Gul’dan struck a bargain with Helya to make it happen.
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Um… none of this is true. Excerpts from A Good War:
- “I have a question for you, High Overlord,” Sylvanas said. “If I commanded you to destroy Stormwind, how would you do it?”
Sylvanas’s glowing eyes pierced into his. “Do not think of Stormwind as the first target. Think of it as the final objective. How would you get there?”
“Teldrassil, the World Tree. Warchief, even if it is possible—”
“ Is it possible?” she said. “If we marched an army to Darkshore to take the World Tree, would the Alliance be able to stop us?”
No. Not if the attack caught them by surprise. Not if the Horde could avoid getting bogged down in Ashenvale . . .
“High Overlord,” Sylvanas pressed, “speak your mind. Is it possible?”
“It is possible,” Saurfang said slowly, “but not without serious consequences.”
“Indeed.”
“We would win one battle, not the war,” Saurfang said. “If we shift the balance of power, the Alliance will respond in kind. Our nations in the Eastern Kingdoms would be vulnerable to retaliation.”
“Especially mine,” Sylvanas said.
He was glad she had said it instead of him. What target would Greymane demand the Alliance attack but Sylvanas’s seat of power? “I do not know if we can protect the Undercity, not while the Alliance is united against us.”
“And what if they were not?” Sylvanas smiled again. “What if they were divided ”
Then the Horde wins. “How would that happen? If we launch a sneak attack on the night elves’ home, the entire Alliance will seek vengeance.”
“At first, yes. They will be furious, united against our aggression,” she said. “But what will the night elves want more than anything? They will demand that the Alliance help retake their conquered home.”
But the Alliance will not have the strength, not in Kalimdor, not with their fleets.
Again. She had done it again. She had opened his mind to a new possibility, and the world shifted under his feet. The strategic implications spun out before him like the Maelstrom. “It will take years before they can even consider retaking Darnassus.”
“You understand, High Overlord,” Sylvanas said. “Think it through. What happens next?”
“They might try to conquer the Undercity . . . but Darnassus becomes our hostage against that. The night elves will not allow your city to fall if they fear it means you will destroy theirs . The same goes for a strike against Silvermoon.” Saurfang’s thoughts raced. She’s right. This could work. “And even if the Alliance agrees to retake Darnassus . . . The Gilneans!”
Sylvanas’s eyes disappeared beneath the edge of her hood. “They lost their nation years ago. The Gilneans will be furious if the Alliance acts to help the kaldorei first,” she said. “The boy in Stormwind will have a political crisis on his hands. He is smart, but he is not experienced. What happens when Genn Greymane, Malfurion Stormrage, and Tyrande Whisperwind all demand differing actions? He is not a high king like his father. The respect the others give him is a courtesy, not an obligation. Anduin Wrynn will rapidly become a leader who cannot act. If the Alliance will not march as one, each nation will act in its own interest. Each army will return home to protect their lands from us.”
“And that is how you defeat Stormwind.”
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So I guess this was the section that I was missing. It seems like a bit of a stretch but I see it. The next question, for Sylvanas at least, is if she knowingly cooperatied with/aided the Legion via Helya if true which unless given some clear cut and dry, I dont think I could buy.
It seemed very obvious that she was aware of what Helya could offer her and what the Valks could offer her likely from Forsaken efforts in Northrend, but I would be hesitant to say she knew anything beyond that.
Unfortunately we do not have any details about what Sylvanas’ deal with Helya was at all, lending itself to conspiracy theories that Sylvanas was working with Helya and the Legion all along. Vol’jin’s questline in BfA revealing that whatever possessed him to appoint Sylvanas Warchief was affecting him before he even got stabbed on the Broken Shore just added more tinfoil to the hats.
And then we have Gul’dan’s speech to the Horde in the Nighthold:
- Have you forgotten your humiliation on the Broken Shore? How your mighty Warchief was stuck in the belly like a helpless piglet? Will you die slowly as he did, consumed by fel corruption and squealing for a merciful end?
Your pathetic Horde will fall to dust. In the end, death will inherit this world… and she will be waiting.
Who is “she”? Helya? Sylvanas? We have no idea.
And then Varimathras as well:
- So, she found me at last. Sent her underlings to finish the job.
Tell me, when she seized your throne of hides and bones, was your allegiance forced? No... I'd wager you surrendered it willingly... or were convinced you did.
It matters not. You are blind to the darkness in your midst.
People are quick to say things like “You’d really believe a Dreadlord? Hah.” But it’d be even more embarrassing if it all ends up true.
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Hmm. Okay, I missed the significance of the “final objective” line (I admit to just heavily skimming the BfA novels). I still expect a reveal about “Her True Plan” that hasn’t been mentioned in any of the books, though.
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This is a dreadlord who has been tortured for years, quite possibly wishing for the sweet release death would being him. He is no longer in a position of power. He has no more games to play. No more chess pieces to move. He is at the end of his line, and his knowledge is still vast.
What reason does he have to lie at this point? The fact that he gives his spiel in the form of a warning is also very telling. Dreadlords deal in absolutes, especially when telling lies. And yet the line, “You are blind to the darkness in your midst” is a very cautionary one.
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