What will it take for Horde Blood Elves to accept Alliance High Elves?

[Motors-korgath (Motors)]

It being playable in another game is NOT A rational argument to make them playing on WoW.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Especially when the concern around balancing is a valid, and reasonable one.

There is no balancing.

Any amount of customization in this game is a huge deal, and the void elves came out with a pretty hefty amount of options compared to most races in-game, with the Nightborne sitting at the very least. It’s clear some amount of effort went into them.

If by effort you mean their hair…then yes, they got a lot of hairdo’s.

Yes, but it’s also a one-player game, meaning it doesn’t face many the restrictions of having to please two different crowds.

This is a fallacy, the playerbase is the playerbase, hence why people play both sides. And most play both games. There is no difference. If anything from the roleplaying perspective people that play the Alliance in WoW want to have access to something they got to play in WC3, it really is just that simple. It scratches an itch. Those people don’t want to play the Evil Elves of TBC and later.

and why in an mmo it’s a concern to the players and devs.

The ONLY valid concern i have ever seen is that they shouldn’t be a playable race due to population concerns…the problem with that argument is that it creates a false faction inside the Horde that are only playing them not because they are Horde but because they are the pretty race of the game.

This still doesn’t suggest that he’s the only one who feels this way,

I never said he was the only one who felt that way, i said he is the game director. His rule is law, but even if i am wrong and they govern the game in a democracy (highly unlikely) i highly doubt he is the only one who might feel that way, but anything is possible. He still get’s to take the brunt of the decision.

No, I said that they weren’t made playable first, the blood elves were, and to fulfill that very High elf fantasy to the players mind you.

This is NOT why they were given to the Horde, they solved a very serious problem that the Horde had in Vanilla, there was a serious population imbalance. They used this carrot of the pretty race to dangle to the Horde side, which as i already mentioned has created this false faction of players Horde side that aren’t really Horde but just want to play the pretty race. Something that any developer or player should be able to recognize as not ideal. But it is what it is. They still don’t fit the Horde aesthetic after all these years, and they never will.

if the High elves undergo some transformation you might someday get to play them.

Maybe. Maybe not, only time will tell.

Or we can all be rational adults and understand that these decisions are made by a team of developers and not to blindly assume that its just him

Again, you don’t know this, this is your assumption. His position as game director means he makes the final call. It would be hard to imagine this does not come up from time to time. At the end of the day, the lack of them being implemented gets laid at the game directors feet as the buck stops with him. And i never said he was some rogue just doing his own thing, i said he owns the decision as game director.

Pretty sure the very first thing you said to me was “This is a made up argument. It means nothing” but okay

That is still not “NO U ARE WRONG” no matter how you want to spin those words.

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

There is no balancing.

There certainly is. Content between the races of the Alliance and Horde are always being balanced and measured, whether it be choosing which race/faction will be getting the spotlight to the story. or which race is getting it’s lore progressed. It’s one of the first things Ion talks about when he discussed developing void elves, how they wanted the Void elves to be a healthy balance of thalassian elf, and something new, and distinct.

If by effort you mean their hair…then yes, they got a lot of hairdo’s.

I feel like you’re trying to downplay this, but in a game with so little customization option having such a wide selection to choose from is a giant deal, especially in comparison to races with as little as 2 options at their disposal.

This is a fallacy, the playerbase is the playerbase, hence why people play both sides. And most play both games. There is no difference. If anything from the roleplaying perspective people that play the Alliance in WoW want to have access to something they got to play in WC3, it really is just that simple. It scratches an itch. Those people don’t want to play the Evil Elves of TBC and later.

First of all, many people do NOT play both sides, with many actually refusing to play characters on the opposing faction. Saying the “playerbase is the playerbase” isn’t actually making any point at all, especially when you start your comment off with an assumption. It doesn’t matter what they got to play an entirely different game, World of Warcraft is not balanced around what you did, or got from WC3. It’s okay to want them, but to demand them is just absurd.

The ONLY valid concern i have ever seen is that they shouldn’t be a playable race due to population concerns…the problem with that argument is that it creates a false faction inside the Horde that are only playing them not because they are Horde but because they are the pretty race of the game.

That is not the concern Ion expressed, or most antis for that matter either. The problem has always been not wanting carbon copies of the blood elves on the other side. Blood Elves have been the most popular race in World of Warcraft since they were introduced, it is not a “faction within a faction”

This is NOT why they were given to the Horde, they solved a very serious problem that the Horde had in Vanilla, there was a serious population imbalance. They used this carrot of the pretty race to dangle to the Horde side, which as i already mentioned has created this false faction of players Horde side that aren’t really Horde but just want to play the pretty race. Something that any developer or player should be able to recognize as not ideal. But it is what it is. They still don’t fit the Horde aesthetic after all these years, and they never will.

The Blood elves were designed to fulfill the High Elf fantasy, the fact that they decided to place them with the Horde has nothing to do with it. Ion says it himself during the interview, “If you want to play a fair-skinned, blonde haired, blue eyed elf, the Horde is waiting for you.” Essentially telling players that if what you WANT is to play a high elf, then you should play a blood elf.

Again, you don’t know this, this is your assumption. His position as game director means he makes the final call. It would be hard to imagine this does not come up from time to time. At the end of the day, the lack of them being implemented gets laid at the game directors feet as the buck stops with him. And i never said he was some rogue just doing his own thing, i said he owns the decision as game director.

One argument is, assume (with no evidence) that Ion is making every decision solely out of his personal interest

or

Acknowledging that with no evidence, that he might just be rationalizing the decisions the devs make during development.

It’s okay to disagree, but trying to blame it all one person just sounds crazy.

That is still not “NO U ARE WRONG” no matter how you want to spin those words.

It’s essentially the same thing, but sure.

[Motors-korgath (Motors)]

There certainly is. Content between the races of the Alliance and Horde are always being balanced and measured, whether it be choosing which race/faction will be getting the spotlight to the story. or which race is getting it’s lore progressed. It’s one of the first things Ion talks about when he discussed developing void elves, how they wanted the Void elves to be a healthy balance of thalassian elf, and something new, and distinct.

This might be something they “strive” for, but it would be hard to say they have come close to hitting the mark. The AR’s are a glaring example of about as uneven as you can get if you think that the races that have been done so far are any sort of balance.

I feel like you’re trying to downplay this, but in a game with so little customization option having such a wide selection to choose from is a giant deal, especially in comparison to races with as little as 2 options at their disposal.

We are still talking about…hair and that is all. Yes i get that they got a lot of hair choices and they are pretty, but that is still all of the work that was put into them.

First of all, many people do NOT play both sides, with many actually refusing to play characters on the opposing faction.

This is a SUPER rarity in my experience. Most people i know that have played the game have either maintained both sides (as i have) or have faction swapped at least once.

Saying the “playerbase is the playerbase” isn’t actually making any point at all, especially when you start your comment off with an assumption.

It’s not an assumption it is fact. A LARGE portion of the playerbase that played WC3 came to WoW, that is just the way it is.

It doesn’t matter what they got to play an entirely different game, World of Warcraft is not balanced around what you did, or got from WC3.

This wasn’t the point. The point was that people got to play High Elves and that fantasy as the good guys, and those players that made the jump ( a great percentage of the playerbase that played WC3) wanted to play them as Alliance and good High Elves, not the arcane addicted light stealing thug Elves introduced in TBC (of which i have several). Just because you want to poopoo this because it doesn’t fit your point of view doesn’t make it valid criticism or a valid point.

That is not the concern Ion expressed, or most antis for that matter either. The problem has always been not wanting carbon copies of the blood elves on the other side. Blood Elves have been the most popular race in World of Warcraft since they were introduced, it is not a “faction within a faction”

This went out the window with Panda’s. Before panda’s you MIGHT have had something of an argument. Afterward it just doesn’t hold any weight.

The Blood elves were designed to fulfill the High Elf fantasy, the fact that they decided to place them with the Horde has nothing to do with it. Ion says it himself during the interview, “If you want to play a fair-skinned, blonde haired, blue eyed elf, the Horde is waiting for you.” Essentially telling players that if what you WANT is to play a high elf, then you should play a blood elf

You keep trying to lean on ION for your backup. The reality is that you always forget what goes along with that. Something about never say never.

One argument is, assume (with no evidence) that Ion is making every decision solely out of his personal interest

or

Acknowledging that with no evidence, that he might just be rationalizing the decisions the devs make during development.

It’s okay to disagree, but trying to blame it all one person just sounds crazy.

This is not how i said it or framed it. When something goes wrong in a war or in policy, we don’t blame the secretary of state or the secretary of defense or the secretary of the treasury, we don’t way oh it was this group here that made this decision. The PRESIDENT gets blame, he is the guy in charge, he is the director of the executive branch. That is what ION is for WoW, he is the chief executive as the game director, he takes the heat BECAUSE he is, not in spite of it.

It’s essentially the same thing, but sure.

If that is what you need to tell yourself, i am ok with that.

[Cyniel-dentarg (Cyniel)]

I wonder how many would settle for a toy. There is one already that lets them be a Blood Elf for 10 minutes, but maybe one that meets their needs more and for longer.

I wouldn’t have a problem with something like that, or even the blue eye request. But as a race, we really don’t need more elves in the game. I thought we had to many with two.

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

I think you have that backwards. I am fairly sure (though I can’t prove it) that horde got Night Borne because Alliance got Void Elves, and not the other way around.

There wasn’t this large clamoring by horde to get a Night Elf model. Instead it was the High Elf for Alliance people who kept offering it as a trade for them getting High Elves.

I personally think that was one of the worst things they did to faction identity since adding Pandas.

[Relictor-stormrage (Relictor)]

This thread sucks.

Why even ask BE players what they think? Their opinions on what Alliance gets for races should be absolutely irrelevant.

Stop requesting permission from people when none is needed.

[Iridium-earthen-ring (Iridium)]

When the Alliance and Horde combine, you will have your elves.

[Wasselin-thrall (Wasselin)]

Blizzard gave you guys Golden Eyes, Blizzard will make High Elves more bulkier and survivalist and not the magic type elves but more wood Elves. They won’t be alliance Blood Elves. They will be Alliance Wood Elves.

Isn’t that what night elves are?

[Reginageorge-moon-guard]

It’s not about the model, never was. It is about the HIGH ELVES AND THEIR LORE. I want to play HIGH ELVES

yes it is about the models and everybody knows. ion even called it out bluntly when he told you ‘if you want to be a light skinned and majestic elf, that is a blood elf, and the horde is there for you’

the only lore they can lay claim to is what they have done since 99% of the population withdrew from alliance territories which is nothing because high elf lore became blood elf lore and everything pertains to them now. the elves you claim its all about have no lore beyond being a windrunner sister raising children in dalaran and living in a hut in the hinterlands currently. so when you say its all about the lore no one takes it seriously

if you want to play a traditional high elf, something blood elves have been moved closer to with the restoration of the sunwell, the option is there for you and no one is denying it from you but yourself. if you want to be a ‘high’ elf political refugee sitting around in dalaran, sorry blood elves are the playable high elves in WoW. just like SW/gilnean/kul tiran humans are their playable option and not defias/alterac/fogsail/death cult humans

[Cyniel-dentarg (Cyniel)]

His problem is he wants to be a light skinned elf strolling through Stormwind. and yeah we all know it is about the model. Which is why I believe people are now crying for the end of factions… If they can’t get the model they’re trying attempt 2.0.

Maybe Blizz can implement a toy idea… or the eyes thing… but we really… REALLY don’t need more elves in this game… Nor do we need the faction barrier lifted, that is a core ideology of this game.

[Dominiquê-proudmoore (Dominiquê)]

It’s funny that Horde are completely okay with getting pretty much a carbon copy of Night Elves with a tiny amount changes, but are adamantly against Alliance getting similar treatment with High Elves. The hypocrisy is astounding.

[Krutz-bleeding-hollow]

It would give me a feeling of supreme pleasure if Blizzard gave blood elves a blue eye option.

… and a quest to go and kill a Silver Covenant elf to steal their tabard.

[Reginageorge-moon-guard]

It’s funny that Horde are completely okay with getting pretty much a carbon copy

if they were a carbon copy i would be against it. blood/high elves are the same race and would be carbon copies of each other with a different adjective. its the exact same thing as tushui/huojin pandaren except the high elf race is not neutral

[Dominiquê-proudmoore (Dominiquê)]

Blizzard literally took Night Elves, altered them slightly, and gave them to the Horde. They even had the Night Elf jump flip before Blizzard decided to take that away.

[Reginageorge-moon-guard]

yes thats the only way for the elf models to cross factions. nightborne and void elves have different aesthetics/themes from their parent races. high/blood elves are the exact same people. the SC is not an AR, theyre a splinter faction of a playable core race

[Dominiquê-proudmoore (Dominiquê)]

Can you explain to my why Blizzard couldn’t do something similar for a High Elf race that decided to join the Alliance? And no High Elves aren’t a splinter faction. They are the ORIGINAL faction that Blood Elves even came from. Void Elves would be a splinter faction of the Blood Elves.

[Iridium-earthen-ring (Iridium)]

Which is why I believe people are now crying for the end of factions… If they can’t get the model they’re trying attempt 2.0.

I want the end of factions and I play Blood Elves. If a person doesn’t care about factions (like me), you play the race you want, because faction is meaningless to you. The people crying for alliance elves most likely love the alliance and would not want the factions to end.

[Wasselin-thrall (Wasselin)]

If you give me blue eyes I don’t care what happens Alliance side. Ideally they just end the faction divide.

They are the ORIGINAL faction that Blood Elves even came from.

High Elves became Blood Elves. Maybe call Alliance Elves Dalaran Elves instead or Cowardly Elves who leave people behind when they need help the most.

[Lorithyn-agamaggan (Lorithyn)]

But green eyes looks so good with the heritage set!

[Reginageorge-moon-guard]

And no High Elves aren’t a splinter faction. They are the ORIGINAL faction that Blood Elves even came from

correct. blood elves are the high elves. they changed an adjective to honor the dead

Can you explain to my why Blizzard couldn’t do something similar for a High Elf race that decided to join the Alliance

because the high elf race, its state and armies are aligned with the horde now. all we have in the alliance are a few individuals. we have an island expedition and a portal keeper. lets be real