The “writers” have tried to make us see is this way, However the story has made most Alliance players agree with Daelin now. The fact that his last words to Jaina have come to pass and have proved him right a couple of times now. Its why the whole Jaina doing another flip to pacifist is so insulting to the character.
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They won’t get any because they’re not in a position to make demands.
Reparations are made by the losing side of a war to the winners. But neither side lost the war. Both sides mutually agreed to stop the fighting.
No they didn’t. The NEs refused to sign the armistice. They’re technically still at war with the Horde.
Again, demanding a lot considering the only reason the Horde stopped is because they felt bad they got tricked by Sylvanas, and not because the Alliance is in any position to stop them.
You don’t have the power to do so.
Tyrande never even agreed to the armistice, so technically the NEs and the Horde ARE still fighting currently.
However, since the NEs haven’t actually attacked the Horde since then, the Horde is likely okay with just leaving them alone.
Like you said, it was never mentioned. Which means the Horde might still be there, and they might not.
Again, these are the kinds of demands you can make when you win a war, not when it ends in a draw.
This seems to be a recurring misconception in this thread, is a lot of Alliance players seem to think the Alliance won the war.
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yep, he was right, for the wrong reasons but he still was right and the nelves paid because of it.
However the story at the same time makes the characters ignore everything that Sylvanas was upto in Stormheim. Why would Saurfang know about the attack on the fleet but not about how Sylvanas had attempted to Kidnap Eyir and intended to use her to get Armies of Valkyr?
Why Wouldn’t Genn bring up what he found out about what Sylvanas was up to in Stormheim to Anduin when he is told off for attacking her? He almost died stopping her.
The answer is Simple, It didn’t allow the stupid war Narrative to work if Saurfang knew what sylvanas had done he never would have trusted her. Anduin would have agreed with Genns actions in stopping her and probably would have actually investigated what she was upto.
If the Horde can make excuses for their actions on the broken shore with a Letter from Baine to Anduin. Why wouldn’t Anduin warn Baine of what the Alliance stopped Sylvanas doing in Stormheim.
So they whole Eyir thing was Retcon out of existence. Hell they even have the Horde speak with Eyir and its never brought up that they’re warchief tried enslave her.
Again its just the writers ignoring their own story because they needed the Horde to have reasons to invade while ignoring other parts of the story.
BFA has been so bad for character development with characters making stupid out of character decisions or completely ignoring any previous character development.
Jaina and Theramore did as well. Its sad that they try to use him as the villain from the Alliance but he was ultiametly right to have done what he did It was Jaina’s mistake for thinking the Horde could change is all that was learned.
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He was right in the form that his actions essentially made it a self-fulfilling prophecy. If it wasn’t for Daelin, Theramore might be in a strong trading position with Orgrimmar instead of being a radioactive crater.
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How did his actions do that? Do you think Garrosh wouldn’t have invaded Theramore if Daelin hadn’t invaded? Garrosh had never met the man never used Daelins actions as a reason for the war.
He simply saw destroying Theramore as a way to weaken the Alliance hold on Kalimdor and isolating the Night elves so they would be next. Hell Garrosh Attacked the Night elves first so had Nothing to do with Daelin.
Even if it had been used as a reason for the war that just shows how resentful the Horde are and how long they would harbor grudges for. Especially after Jaina held her forces back and let them kill her father infront of her.
Garrosh’s war was all about Domination and Resources nothing else.
Sylvanas’s war made no sense and was conceived that the Alliance “might” attack them even though the Alliance literally had the Horde on the ropes 2 expacs ago and let them live. The Argument Sylvanas used was flawed and made no sense.
What would have made sense is the Alliance seeing Sylvanas as a threat after Stormheim and still believing that she meant to get the Alliance all killed at broken shore. Attack Lordearon first to stop her and hold her responsible for Varians death. I would even expect Genn to demand it from Anduin using his Fathers words against him " they fought without honor and it lead to your fathers death, its time to end them".
Its clear that this was the Original plan however I have a strong suspicion that when Golden joined the writing team she refused to let Anduin start the war and started re writing the story.
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The players see things the way the lore doesn’t intend all the time. Baine and Anduin are both written as the “morally pure peace-mongers” but they’re both hated by players of their respective factions. Mostly because they’re peace-making gets in the way of “I want to beat up the other faction and I don’t want to be told I suck for wanting that”.
Blizzard’s story is remarkably anti-war for a game called Warcraft.
At any rate, if they had someone on the Alliance start a war then players would, in the end, still have to side with Baine and Anduin against them, this person would still be categorized as a villain in the lore, and players would still come here and throw a tantrum because of it.
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Agreed, its due to the bad writing by Blizzard that these characters are hated. The nature of the setting doesn’t lend well to pacifist characters and players hate them as they don’t like be lectured by them as they writers use them to drive him their morality lesson to players on why fighting is wrong.
Yet Golden is determined to make her Non masculine non aggressive characters the center of the story and bends the story around them to justify their place in it. While making anyone who doesn’t agree with their outlook a villain.
They dont need the Horde to make reparations to the Alliance. Blizzard needs the Horde as a whole step up and be the first into the Fray when it comes to the next world ending threat. Too step up when the Alliance doesn’t, to protect someone they have wronged in the past to make amends. Like for example the red dragon flight is attacked and the Horde come forth to protect them. Showing that they have a use for their only discernible skill in the game which is fighting, direct the “for the Horde” blood and thunder energy in the right direction.
Instead they have Anduin lecture the horde into changing their ways and how they’re outlook is wrong, then they all of a sudden changing to a council full of alliance lite charcters.
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My personal feeling on it is that the main reason why post-war peace keeps falling flat for the playerbase is because on a meta level, people know that Blizzard’s clinging onto the faction divide with an iron grip and doesn’t want to make any steps to advance a story where the factions continue to pacify toward each other. That they intentionally ended this one with unresolved bad blood just gives everyone an “oh for crying out loud” feeling.
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Tyrande yes, though Lor Themar especially states that he fears that Tyrande could switch his focus on the Horde.
Also Tyrande is not the only NE who is there. She is in SLs, but we have Maiev in charge of the Sentinel Army currently and she is not less fun than Tyrande is.
I sincerely doubt it. But we will have to see.
Since most horde players are just unable to understand it and just want to flame, they don’t see facts that are:
NEs have ISOLATED themselves from the world for 10k years before WC3. The were so hidden that even Taurens don’t really knew about them and just spoke about ghosts in the forest you shouldn’t enter.
That means there has been no trade or anything for 10k years and all was done due to self sustainability.
Which is why I question wether or noth NEs really have a real economy.
Elves in particular are allways described as being very communal. They share their things and don’t have much need for personal wealth.
Hmm then the Horde has not left a single situation unused to prove them right. Not a single.
The horde is a corrupt rabid entity as bad as the Legion it was even founded as an arm of the legion.
Yeah. Does nobody remember when Baine ATE Gallywix!?
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You try to be polemic has a flaw:
Eating people is a core fantasy of Forsaken…
That’s a polemic? Damn, I’d hate so see what you’d call vitriolic.
I’m happy to cop to the Horde having done shady stuff. Hell, I personally fired all the catapults at Darnassus. I had a special unique quest for it, no joke. I had them all tied together with string so I could do them all at once.
But the Legion wanted to wipe out all life. The Horde, at their worst imagining within your mind, only want to wipe out the Alliance life. Even if we accept that each and every one of them, from the biggest Tauren to the baby Vulpera, want to kill every single alliance individual - they still turned on Sylvanas for wanting to kill them as well. Even if we accept that most of them are fine with some teamkilling, they still come out on top. And then there’s the whole ‘save the world several times’ thing on top of that.
So they’re clearly not as bad as the legion. Hell, for wanting to kill all the gnomes it’s practically a karmic null.
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Not even remotely close.
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No it isn’t. Hating characters are a choice made by the players themselves. The writing may be the player’s reasoning for that choice but it’s entirely on the player, not the writers.
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I wouldn’t say that actually.
I for example hate Sylvanas as a character not necessarily because of Teldrassil, but because of the writing HOW that happened and how they write her as a complete mary sue and with the most cheating plotarmor.
It is as if ypi play against a hacker or cheater… you don’t hate him because he wins, but because how he does it.
So in my opinion there ar e 2 forms of hate for a character:
- The character is intentionally written in a way to cause these emotions like that guy in game of thrones. Because he did bad things and you are like “grr i want to punch him”
- The character isjust extremely badly written and is hated because it doesn’t follow the logic narrative or is just hacked into the story, written with powers or knowledge the character can’t possibl y have but otherwise he would be unable to succeed.
This is Sylvanas. The character just was written in WoT to cheat on a meta level. Catapults fire miles, otherwise it would have been impossible to even reach Teldrassil. So it was written that way so Sylvanas can succeed. A tree the size of a mountain burns in SECONDS not because it woudl ever work like that but so she succeeds in killing everyone … it is like switching on godmode.
That is why this character is hated. You just hate cheaters. Not because they play better than you, but because they just cheat.
The real question is, what reparation’s should the lore community get for having to deal with Night Elf fan’s extended two year temper tantrum?
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If Orgrimmar and Theramore had a strong trade relationship instead of an ongoing cold war prosecutred by Daelin’s men after the battle, Garoosh would have had pushback against an offensive on Theramore and less reason for him to have come to that conclusion as the context would be different.
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You’re one of the good ones Drahliana.