What makes WoW fun

Community General Discussion
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I recently watched this video by GiantGrantGames (fantastic Youtuber), and it actually got me thinking about some of the problems that are currently impacting WoW, or at the very least the mage class.

With the introduction of the new talent tree system came an immense benefit, but also some hidden downsides. The immense benefit being that of permanency and the perception of choice; where there are now a wide variety of talent options that one can theoretically pick to do their rotation.

However, it also introduced a bunch of new abilities and button that many developers seem to be ok with. To quote GiantGrantGames:

Source: https://youtu.be/XehNK7UpZsc?si=AR7XjTEikbmez-58&t=467

  • “Starcraft players love to talk about how hard the game is; how a ladder match is like playing chess and piano at the same time, how you can’t click on a button to queue a zerg unless your IQ is over 800”

This deeply resonated with me, specifically with the following clip from Venruki: https://youtu.be/6Ct-fbNDe8Y?si=hOS248YJMIHTEnaF&t=1177

Imagine how much time it takes for your average casual player to understanding just 1 spec’s rotation (Arcane), and now ask them to play Arcane, Fire and Frost.

For the most part, I play only Arcane now, whereas when I started the game back in BfA Season 4, I played all 3 specs of mage.

Why?

Because the rotations back in S4 of BfA were simple.

Giving some specifics: I think Arcane has way too many buttons in its cooldown rotation. Things like Siphon Storm should not give damage (which makes it another stacked damage amp for Arcane). Things like Nether Tempest shouldn’t be another active. Things like Radiant Spark, which is always used with Touch of the Magi, shouldn’t be a separate button from Touch of the Magi.

In an ideal world, Arcane’s cooldown would look like this:

  • Every 90 seconds: Arcane Surge → Radiant Spark/Touch of the Magi combined into 1 button —> Rotation
  • Every 45 seconds: Radiant Spark/Touch of the Magi combined into 1 button —> Rotation
  • Evocation should be used to get mana back, that’s it. Make Siphon Storm remove its cooldown so you can stack haste and use it proactively or something, but at the end of the day, this should not be a cooldown button.
  • Mages shouldn’t have 8 defensives (Barrier, Alter Time, Mirror Image, Greater Invis, Ice Block/Ice Cold, Potion, Lock Rocks, Displacement). We should have 1 or 2 weak short-cd defensives (i.e. barrier + Alter time) and 1 strong defensive (i.e. Ice Block), and 1-2 passive defensives.

Keep in mind, this is in the setting of kicks having to get kicked, having to decurse, having to chain CC mobs in M+, having to do whatever mechanic in Raid/M+, positioning properly (i.e. Yazma in AD, Fyraak on Mythic, etc.).

The complexity is there Blizzard. I think we need to talk about making specs more simple (at least for mage). I haven’t touched Frost mage all expansion because of that alone; I can learn 1 complex spec and that’s it.

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observing the creatures that play this game, love em all

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I’m so mixed on it.

Fundamentally you’re correct that the game has become complex over time. Adding the capstones in Dragonflight and the natural inclination for players to always go for the ‘best’ damage capstones means we end up with more buttons we might desire.

But we do have simple specs too. Using Mage as the example here is Frost. Outside of the addition of ‘Ray of Frost’ and ‘Shifting Power’ they are the same core rotation that you experience while level.

You’re making the decision to play the hardest spec without starting on what’s easy first.

The hard ones can be there for people who like complexity and the easy one can be for those who like it simple.

Even I made the change. I started as Monk tank, but I moved to Blood DK because I find it way easier to play.

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I Like casting spells and swinging weapons and stuff.

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Please leave Arcane alone.

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The gameplay, variety of activities, and RP aspects for me.

  1. I love trying out all the classes and playing with their talents and rotations.
  2. I love collecting different transmogs, pets, and mounts over the years.
  3. I love creating stories for my characters (yes I’m on an RP realm).
  4. I enjoy following the ups and downs of the story, even if most hate it.
  5. I enjoy visiting zones old and new alike, making and reflecting on memories.

Idk, I feel compared to most games, WoW offers long running entertainment.

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Why though? To any of this? Why is this ideal? Especially that last point about defensive abilities. They aren’t part of anyone’s regular rotation and they all have wildly different functions. Even conceding your notion that there is too much complexity (which I don’t), that isn’t complexity. It’s choices.

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The more complexity you have, the less players will play your spec.


And the less players play your spec, the less attention it gets (ie balance tuning, problem-addressing with certain talents, ie Concentration not procing tier set, CC buff sometimes not working, etc).


It isnt by random chance that Boomy gets a massive amount of changes every patch; getting even more changes than Arcane did during 10.1.5 (the mage rework patch). Boomies have a large pool, similar to Ret paladins, and are thus going to get more attention. The antagonist example to this is affliction and survival, which have no one playing it and glaring problems that are not addressed, such as siphon life being used for DPS or the inability to talent into both aoe and st without significant loss to DPS one way or another.


The game is undeniably more complex now than its ever been. There are pros, players far better than you or I, that have commented specifically about why bear was the best tank in S2, and while it had a very strong kit and tier set, every single one also said that it was easier to play, giving you more room to focus on mechanics

            


            

              
              
              
            


          

          

            

              



              
                  
                  
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I will ignore the blatant shilling and advertisement in the OP for some “content usurper” - and focus on the question in the title…


The thing I enjoy about WoW is that feeling of being an adventurer, meeting up with other adventurers, to take on quests. Whether we are friends, strangers, or even foes.


Playing on a PvP server, there have been times where enemies work together and help each other out with hard situations, then part ways without trading blows out of some sort of respect.


It’s why I have no interest in single player RPGs. If I want a good story for myself, I can day dream, and be content.

            


            

              
              
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According to whom? I can just as baselessly state that the less complexity you have, the fewer people will play your spec. After all, who wants to play a boring spec where you just press the same button over and over again?

            


            

              
              
              
            


          

          

            

              



              
                  
                  
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True



Incorrect, they’ve nerfed overly complicated classes before. Key example being WoD Demonology. They have changed Mage even to remove rune of power. They do make changes when there is a consensus on it being too hard.



While the example itself is true, lower played specs → less tuning, Survival is not a complex class, it’s dead easy to play. It just competes with two ranged physical classes that bring the same class utility as it which at the core makes it less desirable. Even during it’s peak in SL S3/S4 it was still outnumbered by BM hunters for this reason.


You include Boomkin and Affliction here, but both are Multi-Dot classes with relatively easy DoT applicators since the start of Dragonflight. Affliction is played less because Demonology and Destruction are currently tuned to be strong. If Affliction was tuned higher, then it would take the place of the other two specs.


You’re conflating the first point into class examples that aren’t relevant to it.



Totally nothing to do with the interaction of how it was running Arcane bear, effectively getting buffed and buffing by the S2 Exodia Group (Mage, Priest, Aug Evoker, Holy Paladin, Bear). It is the easiest tank, yep is only 8.9% of the population on +20’s and above currently.


(bear in mind I don’t think your idea itself is wrong, just the justification you’re using is)

            


            

              
              
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Super common ask out there right now. Especially at the top end. The end game has gotten to a point where it’s off bleeding more people than are getting in. People aren’t becoming mythic raiders or key pushers. They’re just getting their AotC/KSM and then leaving, perhaps to never come back.

            


            

              
              
              
            


          

          

            

              



              
                  
                  
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personally I think some should be more complex and some less so and lot in between. Gives everyone something to play regardless of how simple or complex they like it.

I dont want them dumbing down every spec in the game because I enjoy Beastmaster or Destruction because I prefer playing the game over playing a rotation.

If mage is too complex…and my head is rattling just thinking about that statement, lol…the play destruction warlock.

            


            

              
              
              
            


          

          

            

              



              
                  
                  
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Exactly.

Ive enjoyed complex, Ive enjoyed simple. Ive found that I like a lot of variety, personally. Sometimes I just want to mow down the field and not think about it, other times Im in the mood to press more buttons.

I imagine there are players who just like it consistent, but I seriously doubt dumbing down the game again is going to endear vast numbers of players to it.

I play a few specs daily and somehow I manage to swap between them and not have too much trouble. I cant imagine someone sticking to a single class/spec and where they are playing it every day and still complaining that its too hard.


Ive got to be missing something here.

            


            

              
              
              
            


          

          

            

              



              
                  
                  
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my wife said she agrees 110% with this statement, lol :+1:

            


            

              
              
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The car isn’t fast if you don’t put your foot down. Steering that works at 25 MPH falls apart at 125 MPH. Brakes that can safely stop a 60 MPH car disintegrate trying to stop a 160 MPH car.

            


            

              
              
              
            


          

          

            

              



              
                  
                  
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Ok…so play one of the easier specs/classes.

            


            

              
              
              
            


          

          

            

              



              
                  
                  
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They do, generally. That’s why BM is the most played spec, even when it’s bad.  But it’s a ubiquitous problem. Even the “simple” specs keep getting stuff bolted on, and TWW looks to be a big jump for some of the usually safer bets.


It’s reaching a crisis point.

            


            

              
              
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I do agree things need to be fixed. Certainly the case. I just think that uprooting specs/classes every time someone says theyre too hard is likely going to keep this lack of finalizing a class / spec and calling it good going into perpetuity.

I HATE class reworks unless its sucks and has to be fixed.

making them ‘simpler’ likely mens ‘rework’ them entirely at this point given how its all set up.

I realllllly dont want to have to go thru the process of relearning all the specs I play and having to remake a long list of macros lol.

I kinda prefer just learning what I have and sticking with it.


So Guardian druid is pretty simple. Druid is obviously THE solo class if one wants to get around quick, have stealth, etc. Not saying ‘just play that’ but honestly, as plain jane as it is, it allows me to play the game without having to be fixated on a rotation and seems to be able to handle pretty much anything thrown at it.


Im gonna be selfish on this one. Idont want MY specs trashed becuase someone else doesnt want to learn to play the game better.