What is wrong with surv atm?

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Adreaver-undermine

This HAS to be the case for a combined spec to work.

Depending on whether the individual abilities are actually themed around using weapons as “co-dependants” or not, yes. But that would essentially only make weapons into an aesthetic difference/visual variable.

I don’t think this is the right approach to spec design in this game.

@Adreaver-undermine

Which is why they are separate talents geared around different numbers of cleave targets. MM and BM have talents like that already, and I’d guess most other class specs so as well

Sure, my question was mostly towards why you specifically wanted 2 separate talent options, both focusing on doing the same thing with the same ability, with the only real variable being the max number of targets you can use it against.

@Adreaver-undermine

I agree, which is why I think a 4th spec is the better option and I support that whenever it comes up.

Have noticed

@Adreaver-undermine

That said, the fantasy of SV using any tools available to survive is the entire point of the concept of a combined spec, and that includes a wide variety of weapon options.

Fair enough, although I would continue to argue that you should not opt to completely remove entire playstyles(specs) only to then later add selected parts of them back into other, still existing, specs.

Both for the reason of how the various specs are not the same, they each have their own distinct fantasy and theme, and because it also severely limits the potential for adding further depth to either fantasy, if merged.

I also noticed your comment earlier in the other thread:

@Adreaver-undermine

@Khearsa-trollbane

If anything, they should just add the 1-2 spells back as talents in MM

MM doesn’t want them. SV was it’s own thing, and needs to not be shoehorned into MM.

Don’t get me wrong, I very much agree that RSV should NOT be a part of MM. Just like you said there. RSV was it’s own thing, with it’s own unique fantasy, thematic approach, and mechanical play.

But if you actually think that RSV had a proper fantasy and theme + niche of it’s own, why even opt for merging it into another spec at all?

Sure, you can argue that SV is themed around using every tool available in combat, which can ofc include the ability to opt for using ranged weapons. I would just argue that any work towards the hybrid angle for SV should be done with a theme specific to SV in mind, and not as a way to vaguely reference what was the former SV spec in there.