So other then numbers what mechanically do people have an issue with surv?
And I am not talking about that its not a ranged spec.
For a melee it ticks a lot of box for utility fantastic slow, stun, gap closer, escape tools, able to dps from range if need be (kinda funny how the ranged dps is better then enhance) Has turtle for soaking mechanics.
Tbh, nothing for a casual guild, but for the AOTC, no grip, no Anti magic Zone to soak damage for more than themselves, poor burst for priority adds that aren’t grouped together, also like ferals, and enhance, having a ranged version that brings the same utility.
Mechanically survival is great. amazing mobility, range and meele attacks for kiting or up-close combat, the cc mechanism is great, it’s really just the damage thats the issue
I only take issue with a few things on Survival. One is that I don’t feel like I do any meaningful damage. I also feel like we have a few talents that really should just be part of our default kit. Overall though looking at just playstyle and theme, survival hunter is 100% my favorite spec in the game!
soo the only thing really surv needs right now at least till next patch is a % bonus to damage huh interesting.
and to the grip yeah another spec/specs need to bring grip to the table kinda bad that not only are dks flavor atm but they also bring a utility that is almost mandatory for a raid.
Bonus to damage and pet survivability. Other than that it’s okay. A bit clunky. I wish they would just dump the melee and go back to a ranged trap specialist. It was way more fun as ranged.
For pvp the damage is too low and the pet is perma dead.
For pve the damage is low and it offers zero unique niche or utility.
Survival needs:
*More single target damage and bursts
*More AoE damage abilities (0 aoe without bombs)
*More pet survivability
*Talents rework (PvP and PvE)
*Mastery rework
*Covenant abilities changes and damage increased
*Buff potency conduits
For a melee. That’s the key wording here. I know you want to ignore the ranged issue, but no discussion about Survival that ignores it will be a productive one. BM and MM also do many of the things you mentioned while also being ranged. It would take a large damage and utility advantage for Survival to be a competitive option as a melee spec.
Sooo from here I am looking at pet health issues and a % damage issue.
To compare to ranged is a moot point.
You can be dismissive all you want, but Survival is starting off at a significant disadvantage from being melee. That’s part of the nonsense design paradigm of predicating a spec on a weakness and taking away from the base class, in contrast to every single other spec in the game that operates on building on parts of the base class. The lack of a ranged weapon is not just an irrelevant side issue; it’s the core, fundamental flaw behind all of Survival’s problems.
So, for arguments sake: if they buffed survival damage and pet survivability by 1000% that wouldn’t help? I submit that it would make them OP, so the answer for a quick fix is probably between current and a 1000% fix to the above.
They could give Survival the significant damage and utility boost it needs to overcome the melee disadvantage and be desired over the other specs, but that would be extremely unhealthy for the class. Because, given that it’s predicated on deliberately removing the most core and identifying strength of the class, and that Blizzard in fact confirmed this to be the case, the spec is explicitly aimed at people other than long-time Hunter mains. If they made Survival indisputably the best spec that would mean 100% of the game’s ranged weapon specs would be defunct and the Hunter playerbase would feel pressured to play a spec that statistically over 90% of them want nothing to do with.
We actually had a situation like this. Throughout BFA Survival was the only way to be competitive in rated PvP as a Hunter on account of its favourable stat templating and its unique utility advantages via PvP talents. To no one’s surprise, Hunters were by an large extremely unhappy with this and most opted to just stay out of rated PvP.
From a utility standpoint, SV brings nothing to the table that BM doesn’t do better. BM has literally all the same utility, including gap closers (for the pet), while doing it 100% mobile, from range.
Even MM brings almost everything (no stun, and no pets in most PvE) while having a significantly better damage profile for dealing with priority targets and burst cleave.
To be fair, Survival brings a shorter interrupt CD but this is obviously never enough to make it desirable. In PvP it has more of an advantage in its ability to guarantee trap placements, but again this fails to put SV ahead in Shadowlands.
I get tired of people saying that if you use a ranged weapon your dps becomes even more crap compared to using a melee weapon. While that may be true, that’s really blizz’s fault. First they gave SV ranged spells as “baseline” even though currently you can’t use in them conjunction with your melee spells. Then there are no Talents that affects these “baseline” spells. Then Kill Shot requires a melee weapon even though SV has Serpent Sting, Binding Shot, and Tranquilizing Shot. Like WTF?
My opinion from a pvp perspective is that SV should be a melee/ranged spec. While the ranged part doesn’t need to be quite on par with the melee side, I think there should be a short buff of some kind when disengaged. Short enough that it requires you to Harpoon back into melee range and powerful enough where you’re not losing any big chunks of damage. Also needs a talent or 2 to affect these “baseline” spells, Ex: Tip of the Spear and Mongoose Bite are too similar on the 6th tier and I think TotS and also Viper’s Venom from the 1st tier should become talents to affect those “baseline” spells. Melee and ranged spells need to be more closely balanced, be usable together, and weapons slots should allow you to hold both weapons and use the highest ilvl item’s stats while still being able to tmog both items.
Ok, i’m ready for people to attack my position now.
@bepples and you, I get the point now. Thanks for expounding.
I’m feeling like I missed your point.
The reason people say this is because ever since BFA launched, MSV has had a -50% aura on Auto Shoot.
So, yes, MSV literally does less dps with a ranged weapon…
Because they want people to play it as a melee-spec.
Why did they -50% aura from Auto shoot? Kinda weird and should be removed this expac and like I said the melee/ranged should be balanced closer together.