What is Blizzard doing to the Titans!?

Lore Story Forum
1

Morally grey isn’t a magic bullet for good story-telling or maturity. It requires great attention to detail to get done, and it’s easy to screw up. And even in morally grey, it doesn’t mean all sides are as bad as each other, it just means no-one’s completely good, and no-one’s completely evil.

But take what Blizzard are doing here;

While so far, it’s only from Titan keeper Odyn, but seriously, this “gotta change everyone to be as bad as each other” is ridiculous. You can have shades of grey without that. You can even have shades of grey along with black and white.

The crazy thing is the Titans were already morally grey before these latest coming retcons. Algalon and his “re-origination” in the face of Old God corruption was the first instance of greying up, and yet it was balanced out with the result that it just meant the Titans were permitting of collateral damage.

Now retconning them to be cosmic Cybermen is ridiculous. Even the story’s treatment of Odyn is suspect. Sure, he’s a self-absorbed Titan supremacist, though why is he happy with Warrior PCs just being strong and brave fighters in the Warrior class hall? Why didn’t he raise any objections or complain if they came from cultures with other faiths (like worship of the Light, Elune or the elements)?

For all Odyn’s flaws, if it’s a bit out there for him, how much more out there would it be to villain bat the Titans?

11 Likes
2

Odyn has always been a villian, even in Chronicles.

24 Likes
3

It’s clear Blizzard wants the mortals to triumph over the evil gods. The titans won’t be the last victim.

4

I personally don’t think it’s blizzard villain batting the titans, rather it’s the revealing the keepers sought to keep certain things a secret from us.

To be honest, Odyn was always a borderline evil dude to begin with. Let’s not forgot what he did to Helya and him throwing a tantrum when the other keepers wouldn’t listen to him about not wanting to uplifting the dragons into aspects

I don’t really see it as bad writing, but that’s me

21 Likes
6

No, he was right. While Tyr was the first to suggest it, the others did agree with him, and implored the Titans to uplift the dragons. Only Odyn protested, and thus that line in the sand meant that they other Keepers chose Tyr over Odyn.

Source - Chronicles Volume 1.

12 Likes
7

You are overreacting…
The keepers were always in some kind of trouble be it an old god alliance/corruption or being jerks and auto proclaimed lords of reason and all we are seeing here is more of this…

So chill the f* out!

5 Likes
9

Thank you for clarifying, Gornur. Much appreciated.

1 Like
10

Your welcome.

11

Disaster averted. I am impressed :dragon::dragon_face:

1 Like
12

It is so hard for me to get into the new cosmic lore.

The fact that they retconned chronicles from being an out-of-universe objective to an in-universe subjective account of the universe will be Wow’s greatest blunder imo. There were always retcons, but this makes it so hard. The irony being that Chronicles was made to codify and clean up Wow lore (not that it was perfect either).

A morally grey universe doesn’t fit Wow. It seems so strange to have a world where blizzard loves to project us as the heroes and champions be set in a grey universe. It feels so bleak and nihilistic.

If Wow had incorporated player agency and players could define their own moral path, then I could understand an ambivalent universe.

6 Likes
13

We do need a new set of villains and crisis and this seems to be a logical followup to the foreshadowing last words of Zorvaal.

14

How would you like to see it play out? And I agree with your assessment of Odyn.

Didn’t we already do “the mortals to triumph over the evil gods” with the Old Gods, Sargeras’ imprisonment and defeating Denathrius and the Jailer?

2 Likes
15

Nope, because both warned that there were greater threats waiting in the wings.

16

Titan watchers having an agenda and doing distasteful things? Oh dear, who could have possibily seen this coming…

Everyone.

Literally everyone saw that coming.

Between the imprisonment of the elementals, to the experiments that Mimiron performed on native species and the creation of malformed new species and facilities that could erase all life on the planet on a whim. The titan watchers (and possibly the Titans themselves) have never been the ‘good’ guys. They’ve always had their own goals and desires for the universe. They’re not above stomping on anyone in their way to get what they want either.

12 Likes
17

Titans have been messed up since vanilla.
If you’re surprised by this, you haven’t been paying attention.

5 Likes
18

I just want to bang Eonar tbh

4 Likes
19

I’d have it play out that after we beat Odyn to low health, he stops the fight, explains why he did what he did and he thought it was in the best interest of everyone that certain things be kept in the dark.

And than Helya shows up and kills him and she promises to disappear forever. But that’s me

1 Like
20

I am saying that I think Blizzard plans to continue this trend.

21

How does warning of a greater threat cancel that out? Even if it did, there’s still the Old Gods.

22

These writings are uniquely about Odyn because they were made after the Curse of the Flesh was created and after the Titans were killed by Sargeras. Thus, the Titans had no way of influencing how the flesh races should be watched over and taught.

Also, not all Guardians agreed with Odyn at the time. This further reinforces the idea that these writings are only about Odyn, as not even among the Guardians themselves was there complete agreement, with Odyn being more authoritative and using her power.

This portrayal of Odyn brought by these new writings is in line with what we have seen of him throughout history, as he has always been shown to be very authoritative. Just remember when there was the empowerment of dragons, with him abdicating his position and creating his own army for not agreeing to it, and in the case of Helya being turned against her will into a Val’kyr. So this more authoritative behavior from Odyn that we see in these new writings is something we’ve seen happen before. It’s part of that character’s personality.

Another point worth mentioning is that as these writings seem to have been made before the fall of Ulduar, when the Guardians of that place were corrupted, it could be that Odyn even changed her mind about the Forged being tougher than the flesh races. .

Odyn’s opinion that dragons would not be good guardians of the planet came from the belief that, as beings of flesh, they could be easily corrupted. However, he later saw the other Guardians being corrupted, not to mention that the Curse of the Flesh also turned most of the Forged into mortals, refuting Odyn’s beliefs that the Forged would be above such corruption.

With that, it may be that currently he no longer has such an authoritative view as we see in these writings, even because he worked for a long time with players in Legion.

As I said in another thread, Odyn has always been portrayed as someone very authoritative and these writings show that too, but I don’t see him as a villain for now.

Order force beings often act like the parents of mortal races, forcing us to do something on the grounds that it’s best for us, or hiding things from us on the grounds that we wouldn’t understand. It’s bad attitudes from our characters’ point of view, but it’s nothing like destroying the world or wanting to become the center of the universe.

The Order has this characteristic of being controlling, being responsible for organizing things in the universe, and its entities also inherit this peculiarity. They want to bring order to everything, so they’ll be more authoritarian if need be.

3 Likes